US marine says Australian special forces soldiers made 'deliberate decision to break the rules of war'
ABC Investigations /
Exclusive by Mark Willacy, Alexandra Blucher and Dan Oakes
Posted 3ddays ago, updated 3ddays ago
US marine Josh* worked alongside Australian special forces soldiers in Afghanistan.(Supplied)Share
A United States Marine Corps (USMC) helicopter crew chief says Australian special forces shot and killed a bound Afghan prisoner after being told he would not fit on the US aircraft coming to pick them up.
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Key points:
A US marine says Australians were known to leave "fire and bodies" in their wake in Afghanistan
Australian soldiers from 2nd Commando Regiment told the ABC the US Drug Enforcement Administration refused to work with the November platoon in Afghanistan
It is unclear if the alleged killing is covered in the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force's inquiry
Key points:
A US marine says Australians were known to leave "fire and bodies" in their wake in Afghanistan
Australian soldiers from 2nd Commando Regiment told the ABC the US Drug Enforcement Administration refused to work with the November platoon in Afghanistan
It is unclear if the alleged killing is covered in the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force's inquiry
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Josh* flew 159 combat missions for the USMC's Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 469 (HMLA-469).
He has allowed the ABC to publish pictures of him but has asked that we don't use his real name because he fears retribution.
He has told ABC Investigations he was a door gunner providing aerial covering fire for the Australian soldiers of the 2nd Commando Regiment during a night raid in mid-2012.
The operation took place north of the HMLA-469 base at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan's Helmand Province.
It was part of a wider joint Australian special forces-US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) campaign targeting illicit drug operations that were financing the Taliban insurgency.
"We had done the drug raid, the Aussies actually did a pretty impressive job, wrangling all the prisoners up," Josh said.
"We just watched them tackle and hogtie these guys and we knew their hands were tied behind their backs."
An Australian special forces soldier in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan in December 2012.(Supplied: Defence Force)
He says the commandos then called up the US aircraft to pick them and about seven prisoners up.
He says the Americans only had room on the aircraft for six.
"And the pilot said, 'That's too many people, we can't carry that many passengers.' And you just heard this silence and then we heard a pop. And then they said, 'OK, we have six prisoners'.
"So it was pretty apparent to everybody involved in that mission that they had just killed a prisoner that we had just watched them catch and hogtie," he said.
Josh says neither he nor any of his crew spoke about what had just happened.
"We were all being recorded on our comms," he said.
"All of us were pretty aware of what we just witnessed, and kind of didn't want to be involved in whatever came next."
Josh says he later discussed the incident with his crewmates after returning to Camp Bastion.
"This was the first time we saw something we couldn't morally justify, because we knew somebody was already cuffed up, ready to go, taken prisoner and we just witnessed them kill a prisoner," he said.
"This isn't like a heat of the moment call where you're trying to make a decision. It was a very deliberate decision to break the rules of war.
"I think that was the first thing that happened that didn't quite sit right with us, where we were like, 'OK, there's no excuse, there's no ambiguity, there's no going around this one'."
Josh* flew 159 combat missions for the USMC's Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 469 (HMLA-469).
He has allowed the ABC to publish pictures of him but has asked that we don't use his real name because he fears retribution.
He has told ABC Investigations he was a door gunner providing aerial covering fire for the Australian soldiers of the 2nd Commando Regiment during a night raid in mid-2012.
The operation took place north of the HMLA-469 base at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan's Helmand Province.
It was part of a wider joint Australian special forces-US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) campaign targeting illicit drug operations that were financing the Taliban insurgency.
"We had done the drug raid, the Aussies actually did a pretty impressive job, wrangling all the prisoners up," Josh said.
"We just watched them tackle and hogtie these guys and we knew their hands were tied behind their backs."
An Australian special forces soldier in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan in December 2012.(Supplied: Defence Force)He says the commandos then called up the US aircraft to pick them and about seven prisoners up.
He says the Americans only had room on the aircraft for six.
"And the pilot said, 'That's too many people, we can't carry that many passengers.' And you just heard this silence and then we heard a pop. And then they said, 'OK, we have six prisoners'.
"So it was pretty apparent to everybody involved in that mission that they had just killed a prisoner that we had just watched them catch and hogtie," he said.
Josh says neither he nor any of his crew spoke about what had just happened.
"We were all being recorded on our comms," he said.
"All of us were pretty aware of what we just witnessed, and kind of didn't want to be involved in whatever came next."
Josh says he later discussed the incident with his crewmates after returning to Camp Bastion.
"This was the first time we saw something we couldn't morally justify, because we knew somebody was already cuffed up, ready to go, taken prisoner and we just witnessed them kill a prisoner," he said.
"This isn't like a heat of the moment call where you're trying to make a decision. It was a very deliberate decision to break the rules of war.
"I think that was the first thing that happened that didn't quite sit right with us, where we were like, 'OK, there's no excuse, there's no ambiguity, there's no going around this one'."
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'Lots of fire and bodies were often left in their wake'
ABC Investigations understands that — as part of its inquiry into alleged special forces war crimes in Afghanistan — the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force (IGADF) is investigating the killing of at least one prisoner by Australian commandos.
Josh* led a helicopter crew in the US Marine Corps.(Supplied)
It is unclear if this alleged killing is one of those being investigated.
When contacted for a response to this story, an Australian Defence Force spokesperson said: "It is not appropriate for Defence to comment on matters that may or may not be the subject of the Afghanistan Inquiry."
Josh says he did between one and two dozen drug missions with the Australians from 2nd Commando in 2012, mainly providing aerial cover fire and sometimes dropping sniper teams on overwatch positions.
"A lot of us wanted to work with the Australians because we were all like — I don't know if bloodthirsty is the right term — but we wanted action. They wanted to shoot. And when you worked with the Aussies you get involved pretty often," he said. "Lots of breaching of walls with explosives and lots of fires and bodies were often left in their wake."
He says on a mission early in his 2012 deployment, one of his USMC comrades was shocked by what he witnessed the commandos do on a joint drug operation.
"They go down for a landing. As soon as the Aussies exit, there was somebody just sitting on a wall watching them land. They got off and popped the guy a few times in the chest."
Josh says his fellow marine later confronted the commandos about the killing.
"My buddy came and asked, 'Hey, what happened to that guy?' And he said, 'Oh, he's dead mate.' And he's like, 'Why? He wasn't even armed. What happened there?' He said, 'Oh, he was armed when we got through with him.'"
'We're not going to work with those f***ing guys'
A member of 2nd Commando's Oscar platoon who served on that deployment has confirmed that the Americans were unhappy with the conduct of some of his comrades.
"Our platoon commander pulled our platoon together and said that the [DEA] has said in no uncertain terms that they won't operate with [2nd Commando] November platoon any more due to their behaviour in the field," he said.
'In my books, it's murder'
Another commando from Oscar platoon who was on that deployment confirmed to ABC Investigations that November platoon had a bad reputation among the Americans.
"I remember talking to [DEA agent] afterwards, and he said, 'We're not going out with those f***ing guys ever again'. Every DEA team that went through there loved working with us and had no problem, but November platoon was the first platoon that the DEA said they wouldn't work with," the former commando said. "Something obviously went down."
Former USMC helicopter crew chief Josh says he flew dozens of missions with other special forces, including USMC special operations and the British SAS.
"The [British] SAS always had an incredible restraint, at least in the times when me and my friends worked with them. Sometimes a frustrating amount," he said.
"Everybody else would step on the lines, but the Aussies would just see the line and just hop right over it."
* Name has been changed
Support services
Do you know more?
Please use this form to get in contact with the ABC Investigations team, or if you require more secure communication, please choose an option on the confidential tips page
Contact Mark Willacy using ProtonMail markwillacy@protonmail.com or using the Signal app +61 477 714 805
---
No system is 100 per cent secure, but ProtonMail and Signal can be used to protect your identity by using end-to-end encryption. Please read the terms and conditions to work out if they are the best methods of communication for you.
'Lots of fire and bodies were often left in their wake'
ABC Investigations understands that — as part of its inquiry into alleged special forces war crimes in Afghanistan — the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force (IGADF) is investigating the killing of at least one prisoner by Australian commandos.
Josh* led a helicopter crew in the US Marine Corps.(Supplied)It is unclear if this alleged killing is one of those being investigated.
When contacted for a response to this story, an Australian Defence Force spokesperson said: "It is not appropriate for Defence to comment on matters that may or may not be the subject of the Afghanistan Inquiry."
Josh says he did between one and two dozen drug missions with the Australians from 2nd Commando in 2012, mainly providing aerial cover fire and sometimes dropping sniper teams on overwatch positions.
"A lot of us wanted to work with the Australians because we were all like — I don't know if bloodthirsty is the right term — but we wanted action. They wanted to shoot. And when you worked with the Aussies you get involved pretty often," he said. "Lots of breaching of walls with explosives and lots of fires and bodies were often left in their wake."
He says on a mission early in his 2012 deployment, one of his USMC comrades was shocked by what he witnessed the commandos do on a joint drug operation.
"They go down for a landing. As soon as the Aussies exit, there was somebody just sitting on a wall watching them land. They got off and popped the guy a few times in the chest."
Josh says his fellow marine later confronted the commandos about the killing.
"My buddy came and asked, 'Hey, what happened to that guy?' And he said, 'Oh, he's dead mate.' And he's like, 'Why? He wasn't even armed. What happened there?' He said, 'Oh, he was armed when we got through with him.'"
'We're not going to work with those f***ing guys'
A member of 2nd Commando's Oscar platoon who served on that deployment has confirmed that the Americans were unhappy with the conduct of some of his comrades.
"Our platoon commander pulled our platoon together and said that the [DEA] has said in no uncertain terms that they won't operate with [2nd Commando] November platoon any more due to their behaviour in the field," he said.
'In my books, it's murder'
Another commando from Oscar platoon who was on that deployment confirmed to ABC Investigations that November platoon had a bad reputation among the Americans.
"I remember talking to [DEA agent] afterwards, and he said, 'We're not going out with those f***ing guys ever again'. Every DEA team that went through there loved working with us and had no problem, but November platoon was the first platoon that the DEA said they wouldn't work with," the former commando said. "Something obviously went down."
Former USMC helicopter crew chief Josh says he flew dozens of missions with other special forces, including USMC special operations and the British SAS.
"The [British] SAS always had an incredible restraint, at least in the times when me and my friends worked with them. Sometimes a frustrating amount," he said.
"Everybody else would step on the lines, but the Aussies would just see the line and just hop right over it."
* Name has been changed
Support services
The Defence all-hours Support Line is a confidential telephone and online service for ADF members and their families 1800 628 036
Open Arms provides 24-hour free and confidential counselling and support for current and former ADF members and their families 1800 011 046
Soldier On is a national support services provider for Defence personnel, contemporary veterans, and their families. Contact during office hours 1300 620 380
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