동아시아의 평화와 화해의 정치학 Scrapbook: DPRK Study Group The south Koreans are brainwashed

2017-10-06

DPRK Study Group The south Koreans are brainwashed

(15) DPRK Study Group

Nizar Tarabein

Yesterday at 03:02

The south Koreans are brainwashed to despise the North and view it as tyrannical. If the North recaptures that territory, most people will be in opposition. How will such problem be solved?

Bjarni Thomas, 김웅진 and 10 others

Comments

John Kenney Hence why a peaceful reunification of the peninsula is the only viable way forward. A good start would be a resumption of the "Sunshine Policy" initiated by Kim Dae Jung, coupled with a withdrawal of all US occupation troops from south Korea.

Yesterday at 03:16

John Jaasiel Salig Juanich I prefer both of them existing as separate sovereign nations. As long as there is complete US withdrawal.

Yesterday at 03:19

Brendan Misko Why do you prefer that?

ReplyYesterday at 03:50

John Jaasiel Salig Juanich The south and north for the longest time have been separated to the point that their differences and preferences can be seen. With the withdrawal of the US, peace talks can finally happen IMO. With that, reunification with some family members separated by north and south would be highly possible w/o much of a hassle.

Yesterday at 04:08

John Jaasiel Salig Juanich Just to add, being separate nations will not hinder them from working together to improve both nation's economy.

Yesterday at 04:12

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Steven Trop Slowly

Yesterday at 03:16

Andrii Svystun It won't, because capturing that territory would end up in a bloody war, resulting in a terrible guerilla warfare afterwards, since the ideologies and beliefs of the two countries are too different and are in stark contrast to one another.

The only way to reunite the people is to talk and compromise, both sides would have to be ready to give up certain aspects of their lives in order to coexist.

Yesterday at 03:31

William Hopkins nobody intends to "recapture" the south, both north and south would begin by simply being separate governments at peace with one another

Yesterday at 03:31

Lina Fernández Giraldo How do you know this? Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

ReplyYesterday at 03:35

Nizar Tarabein I've spoken to many south Koreans and I have observed the anti-DPRK culture of the ROK.

Yesterday at 03:39

Lina Fernández Giraldo Aah. Right on.

Yesterday at 04:43

Nizar Tarabein But this info isn't enough to say that, and if someone has more information, I am willing to learn.

Yesterday at 05:06

Lina Fernández Giraldo My dad works for Koreans, but I’m at least 3% sure that’s not the kind of conversation he’d want to get into.

The two South Koreans I’ve talked to didn’t really have a proper opinion on things. Just that reunification would be good and that they don’t hate the north (probably for the same reason we (Colombians) don’t hate Venezuela).

Yesterday at 05:28

Nizar Tarabein How do Colombians view Maduro, and how do they view pan-Latin America?

ReplyYesterday at 05:42

Lina Fernández Giraldo We all hate Maduro and his regime the same amount we all hated Chavez. Venezuelans have now immigrated into Colombia and, similar to Mexicans in the US, are willing to do a ton of jobs for less money than Colombians. It probably causes some animosity, but I feel like a lot of us understand that they just want a better life and/or need to send money back to their families in Venezuela.

ReplyYesterday at 06:05

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Jack Sharpe I doubt it will anyway. I'm pretty sure the DPRK government is aware of this and it's why its official policy is still Kim Il-sung's plan for reunification which from what I've read is essentially a federally arranged Korea with two "states" (north and south) while both governments continue to exist, but begin co-operating and over time begin to merge while getting rid of the US military presence on the peninsula.

Yesterday at 04:04

Steven Trop I live in Germany, unification came rather quickly and efficiently. Of course they never fought each other, leaving the poisonous legacy like in Korea. Yet it only came about with the collapse of Communism, the DDR losing, entirely absorbed into the western system. I doubt the North will give that up.

Yesterday at 05:13Edited

Shaman Seki What makes you think South Koreans are brainwashed to think North Koreans are brainwashed? This is a ridiculous narrative designed to further stir conflict so that Korea can continue to be used as a proxy war between China, Russia and US.

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Most Koreans I know are kind of obsessed with connecting with their relatives on the other side of the border. Most South Koreans I know are kind of obsessed with learning about all the nuanced differences ... which in reality can be easily overcome. I think you may be confusing real people with political narratives and propaganda. The most popular shows in TV in South Korea are all about North Korea! And these shows don't attempt to dishonor North Koreans ... rather, they showcase the awesome strengths of North Koreans ... strong, tough, hardy, resilient.

ReplyYesterday at 05:08Edited

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Nizar Tarabein This conclusion that I have arrived to is based on some south Koreans I personally spoke to, but i am not saying it's necessarily true, as a few people I spoke to can't determine an entire population, so you may be right.

ReplyYesterday at 05:09

Shaman Seki South Korea is having hard times right now ... too much change happening too fast ... young folks call it "Hell Korea" ... so like everyone else in the world, you are gong to hear individuals trying to place blame on others. This is human nature.

On ...See more

ReplyYesterday at 05:19

Shaman Seki I'm pretty sure if you brought a collection of people fro mall over the world to South Korea and had them attend Moon's Stadium Filled Unification Church Services ... they would all call South Koreans Brainwashed ... I know I would if that was the only experience I had with South Korea

ReplyYesterday at 05:25

Gabe Bauer The DPRK is the continuation of the provisional government established by the Koreans after kicking out the Japanese, the People's Republic of Korea. The US then came in an established a military dictatorship in the South and outlawed the Korean Worker...See more

Shaman Seki Of course it's a proxy war ... at least from the perspective of Russia, China and the US. If you are in the DPRK/ROK, then I guess it can be difficult to confront this fact as it leaves one dispirited.

You should add Korean Channels to your cable sub...See more

Gabe Bauer Oh I've seen plenty of the defectors from the DPRK. I've also seen the people from the ROK who defected to the DPRK, as well as those from the DPRK who defected to the ROK and then defected back to the DPRK

Gabe Bauer The DPRK is the legitimate government of Korea. South Korea is just a US puppet state. It's a war for imperialism for the US

Shaman Seki idk, I get pretty bored with neocolonialism narratives (when the imperialists colonizers try to AltSplain postcolonialism to the colonized). The truth is that things are way more complex. You can't start a discussion with "legitimacy" ... that's just ...See more

Gabe Bauer The US literally established South Korea by invading and establishing a military dictatorship. The South Korean government is ripe with corruption and would collapse if it weren't for the US military presence. South Korea has proven very profitable to ...See more

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Gabe Bauer Neocolonialism is a thing. Imperialism is a thing. The US is the center of a global capitalist empire designed to benefit Wall Street and multi billion dollar corporations

Gabe Bauer The DPRK is the rightful government if Korea which was established after they kicked out the Japanese

Gabe Bauer South Korea is a puppet state designed to benefit major corporations in the US

Shaman Seki my advice to young grasshopper is to take a deeper dive into how the real economy works and who in fact controls the military industrial complex .. hint what you call US imperialism isn't the US ... this hydra beast has a transnational origin ... these "isms" are a way to keep your head buried in the sand.

Gabe Bauer No, it's not. This is imperialism. This is due to the concentration of capital creating unprofitable conditions in the global North causing a need for then to export capital to the global South to make higher profits. It is international, but that's ki...See more

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

Written: January-June, 1916 Published: First published in mid-1917 in pamphlet form, Petrograd. Published according to the manuscript and verified with the text of the pamphlet.Source: Lenin’s Selected Works, Progress Publishers, 1963, Moscow, Volume 1, pp. 667–766.Transcription\Markup: Tim Delaney…

MARXISTS.ORG

Shaman Seki and I would suggest you understand how money really works .. .how it is created, how it is weaponized and who is pulling the strings behind the curtains. I agree that Capitalism should be loudly criticized for all its true flaws and falsehoods ... but ...See more

Here’s all the money in the world, in one chart

Ever wonder how much money there is in the…

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Shaman Seki There are 9 major schools of economic thought .. it's not that hard to spend a little time on each one before clinging to just one
https://youtu.be/NdbbcO35arw

RSA ANIMATE: Economics is for Everyone!

‘Economics is for everyone’,…

YOUTUBE.COM

Gabe Bauer David Graeber's book on Debt, and confessions of an economic hit man are two good books, I agree

Gabe Bauer If you like that Graeber book, I suggest you check out this one, too
https://www.marxists.org/.../marx/works/1884/origin-family/

Origins of the Family

Written: March-May, 1884;First Published: October 1884, in Hottingen-Zurich;Source:…

MARXISTS.ORG

Shaman Seki I'm happy to know you have read DEBT and CONFESSIONS. I assume you fully understand the basics of Debt Slavery and how all of the 'isms' use it as a tool.

The new technological platform for Marx-Lenin is NOT going to be won in the politburo ... it's going to be written in Ethereum on blockchain governance platforms. If you want to have an influence in tomorrow's political arena - tell all your political science professors to fuck off and dive into blockchain, smart contracts and DAO non-zero-sum game theories

Gabe Bauer I don't have political science professors. I'm in high school. Though, if I did, I'd tell them to dive into Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. Everything Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao wrote are still of much importance today. They way I want to have an influence in tomorrows political arena is not by running for some dumb ass office, but by organizing working people to smash the bourgeois state

Shaman Seki I'll tell you what I tell every other high school person I corner ... learn to code!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gabe Bauer .....I know how to code already

Gabe Bauer int main {
cout <<< "I know how to code";
}

Shaman Seki then get into smart contracts and DAO game theory ... that's really the new political platform that is going to determine the rules of governance

Gabe Bauer Well, you should get into Marxism-Leninism. That's really going to be the political science that is really going to determine the rules of governance

😊

Shaman Seki Been there done that ... I'm an old fart

Gabe Bauer Again, highly recommend those two books. The one by Lenin and that one by Engels

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Shaman Seki Can Ethereum Based Decentralized Autonomous Organizations Empower the Workers?

What is new is the way money is held by a smart contract, rather than given to management, thus keeping management fully to account while making considerably more difficult...See more

Can Ethereum Based Decentralized Autonomous Organizations…

Workers could be empowered through…

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Gabe Bauer Shaman, our goal is to not redistribute private property, but to abolish it altogether. I still say Marxist socialism >>>>>any alternative

Shaman Seki in other words - it is effective to hack government ... less effective to Prosthelytize. Code Up instead of Color Up

Reply6 hrsEdited

Shaman Seki The world's a petri dish Gabe Bauer -- cultivate what you will shall be the law of the land

Write a reply...

Linda Derham The Koreans I know aren’t brainwashed. They don’t care about the north and ignore it.

Yesterday at 07:21

Brandon Freihoff I'm American and I love North Korea, my government will not tell me who I can like. I see past the Western lies I am fed by my government and have decided myself that DPRK is a friend of mine and I apologize that my countries government has done so much atrocity.

Yesterday at 07:30Edited

Liam Birch A united Korea will be a capitalist, democratic Korea. There is no scenario in which Korea is united under Juche. Believing so is delusional.

ReplyYesterday at 12:03

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Nizar Tarabein > Capitalist
> Democratic ...See more

Salim Ghassan Capitalism is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

23 hours agoEdited

David Bell The Juche philosophy is not limited to the DPRK, all it means is 'self sufficient'... EVERY country in the entire world would love to be 'self-sufficient' wouldn't they?... What is your understanding of Juche?... You can be capitalist and strive for Juche.

Liam Birch Self-sufficiency in a capitalist system means protectionism, which results in economic disaster. Globalized free trade is the way the world is going whether you believe that is good or bad.

But let's ignore the semantics and deal with the reality of the situation: a united Korea will look far more like South Korea than the DPRK.

David Bell No.... It just means if the country was totally isolated by the entire world, it can still thrive... Nothing more than that... Every country wants to be able to stand on its own two feet without having to rely of other countries for resources, if they can become fully self sufficient, and also sell their excess resources to other countries that is a bonus, it allows the people to thrive even more

Nizar Tarabein That depends on the path that occurs for reunification. There is no path that looks likely at all. But with North Korea's nuclear missiles, and China's protection, that's not happening. If war breaks out, US will not send ground troops. This means that north will invade south, and it will succeed at doing so. US will never make the mistake of putting ground troops again.

David Bell South Korea can't afford reunification... The latest cost put on it to bring the north into line with the south is $16 trillion over 30 years and will mean massive tax increases that will not be popular.

Reply19 hrsEdited

David Bell Also how many millions would stream south over the border to start looking for well paid work?... That alone would create a huge migrant crisis that would be uncontrollable. To try to prevent it would be seen as a mass rejection of the people of gthe north..... These are all very real scenarios that the western powers don't think about.

Liam Birch Yes. The thirst for capitalism and freedom would be very strong from the liberated North. I agree, unification is both unlikely and unwanted by the average South Korean.

Liam Birch Of course I'm being somewhat facetious but I also think that it is highly likely that North Koreans would very quickly become capitalists when they see the huge difference in standard of living in the South.

David Bell Capitalism serves only the privileged few at the expense of the poor masses, I live in capitalist Thailand, there is a tiny fraction of the population that are elites, and a huge proportion that are basically wage slaves for the rich that still live in...See more

David Bell Thanks to capitalism, the world's top 1% own 99% of all the world's wealth while the bottom 99% have to share 1% of the wealth.

Liam Birch You honestly believe that when North Koreans pour over the border and see Seoul, the excellent standard of living, outstanding healthcare etc that they're going to yearn for their poverty-stricken former lives?

David Bell What are you talking about?... Are you telling me that you believe all the MSM propaganda that the DPRK is a horrendous place to live?.... Do you think if they were not being deliberately held back by the rest of the world that they would still not hav...See more

Reply17 hrsEdited

Liam Birch The fact is that they do not have the same standard of living. Not even close. South Korea is one of the largest economies with one of the highest standards of living in the world.

David Bell S Korea is only 11th between Canada and Russia.

David Bell And are extremely vulnerable to having to take in an extra 25 million people... I have explained what an extra 3 million does to the fifth biggest economy in the world, you have not replied to that.

David Bell You really don't think very deeply, you seem to think the north will immediately elevate to the same standards as today's south.... NO... The south will be dragged down a hell of a lot causing massive resentment, and where are the extra 25 million jobs...See more

Liam Birch You seem to have misunderstood my stance. Not once have I ever suggested that the South absorbing the North would be beneficial for the South. You are arguing against a point I never made. Unification would be an economic disaster for the South due to ...See more

David Bell I am not missing the point, you are making out that if they are reunified the people of the north are gong to wake up in this capitalist nirvana, it is going to be anything but that... They are going to wake up where everything a capitalist society has...See more

Liam Birch No, that is not what I said or meant. I agree with you; it would be a mess. But that is not the fault of capitalism, but rather the abject poverty that the north citizens would be coming from as a result of the authoritarian, socialist regime they'll h...See more

Reply14 hrsEdited

David Bell You seem to forget, I have lived in the UK for 54 years and 7 years in Thailand, The UK is way more affluent to Thailand, I can tell you this for sure, money and property does not make you happy, almost everyone i know in the UK scrape by in debt just ...See more

David Bell I have also spent a lot of time across Africa, they are all capitalist countries and jeez, the poverty is unbelievable.

David Bell Also, you can't say capitalism is far superior to socialism because not a single socialist country has been allowed to flourish by the capitalist west, they block EVERY effort... In fact the DPRK has done a very good job with socialism when you conside...See more

David Bell What are the best things about a capitalist society?... free healthcare, free education, a good welfare system, a good state pension, these are all mechanisms of socialism.... Ironic that isn't it?

Ryan Clarke Liam Birch " Yes. The thirst for capitalism and freedom would be very strong from the liberated North. "

Peak levels of bullshit here.

Liam Birch No. The best thing about capitalism is that it generates wealth and allows people a standard of living unthinkable to our ancestors. It also maximizes freedom and limits the role of the state; itself an institution of oppression.

Your conspiracy theo...See more

Ryan Clarke Liam Birch " The best thing about capitalism is that it generates wealth "

Generates wealth for who ?...See more

Liam Birch Capitalism generates wealth for everyone. Poor people in South Korea have cell phones, the internet, a flat screen TV, plentiful food etc. Capitalism is the reason we now talk about relative poverty instead of outright poverty; there is statistically zero absolute poverty in industrialized capitalist states.

Capitalism maximizes economic freedom yes, obviously.

The very definition of a state is that it is a political institution that possesses "the monopoly on violence". It is widely acknowledged that the state is a repressive institution. This isn't a controversial opinion.

The DPRK faces sanctions because it is an abuser of human rights and commits acts illegal under international law. It has absolutely nothing to do with some bizarre capitalist conspiracy theory to hold down the development of the state.

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Liam Birch I'd sure like to live an extra ten years on average like the South Koreans do too.

Ryan Clarke Liam Birch " Poor people in South Korea have cell phones, the internet, a flat screen TV, plentiful food etc ".

As do people in North Korea....See more

The persistence of Poverty in Capitalist Countries - ScienceDirect

This article describes the increased rate of…

SCIENCEDIRECT.COM

Ryan Clarke Liam Birch Your source is literally the world bank and the CIA. Do you even think before you post these things ?

Liam Birch Ok, first off - "LMAO Wut" and "lol" are not arguments. They're juvenile, brainless interjections that offer nothing to the discussion.

Secondly, you accuse me of having "unique views" for pointing out an accepted political science definition of the word 'state', and yet you have the extremely 'unique' position of being an apologist for one of the most repressive regimes the world has ever seen. Do you not see the absurdity of your position? Perhaps the whole international community is wrong and only YOU and a select others know the REAL truth about the DPRK? Is that it? This is delusional.

Now let's deal with your points. Poor people in North Korea do not have any of the things I mentioned, that you contend that they do. Poor people in North Korea don't even have electricity. Only around 33% of North Koreans have access to electricity. Let that sink in. People in North Korea die ten years earlier than the South. Why is that? They're the same race, ethnicity, culture, everything. What causes this disparity? *Oooooh it's the evil capitalists - give me a break*

The US is also indeed a violator of international law. This is true. The difference is that the US has power and influence; the DPRK doesn't. Is that fair? No. Is it because of a giant global capitalist conspiracy to keep the DPRK down? No.

Another hilarious thing - you say that I am using CIA sources, and then link to an overtly Marxist paper. And it seems that you don't understand the difference between absolute and relative poverty. There is 0% absolute poverty in the US. Do you know why? Because of the wealth created by capitalism.

David Bell His source is the White House.

Gabe Bauer Yeah, SOME people in South Korea are doing absolutely fantastic, but I know if I had to choose between living here, or living in the DPRK where I am guaranteed free housing, of good quality, too, guaranteed vacations, retirement at 60, free healthcare, and free education, I'd chose the DPRK

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Gabe Bauer The DPRK faces sanctions because they care to defy the imperialists. They are not the aggressor

Gabe Bauer Liam Birch, I find it funny your ability to ignore any half way sensible analysis of the situation of the DPRK

Gabe Bauer You talk about the freedom of the press in the ROK. However, in South Korea, it is illegal to say anything positive about the DPRK. If you do, you can be arrested and thrown into prison. Also, all of the human rights trials are done in South Korea. Funny how that works right?

Gabe Bauer The DPRK has a lack of electricity because they have had a lack of oil since the dissolution of the USSR. That's also why they had a famine in the 90s. That's also why they have nuclear weapons in the first place.

Gabe Bauer You just seem to be parroting CIA propaganda without using any critical thinking skills

Gabe Bauer The DPRK has a very impressive standard of living for a country in a condition such as theirs. I would be doubtful that today only 1/3 of the DPRK has electricity, but I don't have the data to prove otherwise atm

Gabe Bauer I suggest you check this out:
https://youtu.be/H3LA_VkDTYo

Socialism Gives a Better Quality of Life

Apologies for the audio. Sources:…

YOUTUBE.COM

Gabe Bauer What about the people who defect to the DPRK from the South? What about the people who defect from the North to the South who end up defecting back? What about the 6 American GIs who defected to the DPRK? There was even a documentary made based off of interviews that the film makers had with one of them in the DPRK

Gabe Bauer Look up James Dresnok

Liam Birch "Yeah, SOME people in South Korea are doing absolutely fantastic, but I know if I had to choose between living here, or living in the DPRK where I am guaranteed free housing, of good quality, too, guaranteed vacations, retirement at 60, free healthcare...See more

Gabe Bauer Appalling healthcare? The last data u saw showed a life expectancy 4 years higher than the world average despite having an income around 15% of the world average

Gabe Bauer And Liam, if you are one of the people forced to live here, yes, I'd say life in the North would probably be significantly better

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Kabogoza Abubakar Thanks for your comments I have learnt sk and DPRK so interesting

김웅진 South Koreans are totally brainwashed by the US imperialist and the puppet regime. Re-education with the truth and facts and true history will cure their misconception very quickly, almost overnight. All the media, newspaper, and educational institutions teach the right things 24/365, then people will quickly know that they had been deluded, and that NK is right.

鍾翔宇 People have to learn through their own experience. The first to see the truth will probably be the ones condemned to homelessness, prostitution, and living in slums. Undoubtedly, life will take a negative turn for chaebol families. If reunification is possible, then imperialism is probably weakened and there's probably enough popular support in the first place.

Linda Derham Unfortunately the lure of capitalism will negate all your hopes as it always, always does. Germany’s story was equally complex but people don’t care about who is right historically when they can make money.

Shaman Seki There was some breakthrough discourse from economists during Occupy Wall Street protests ... lots of take away messages that emerging countries can learn from about the pitfalls of casino economics. Unfortunately populist narratives have hijacked the m...See more

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Shaman Seki In other macro-economic news: Russian Banking System on Brink of Collapse

- Two-thirds of Russians now say that the country’s economic course should be changed (://newsland.com/.../dve-treti-rossiian-vyskazalis.../6001418),...See more

Две трети россиян высказались за смену экономического курса:…

NEWSLAND.COM

Gabe Bauer Stalin remains to this day the most popular figure in Russia. Most Russians want a return back to the Soviet era.

Gabe Bauer Shaman, I don't know why you laugh reacted. Everything in that image is factual

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Steven Trop The German's didn't fight each other, reunification easier without a poisonous legacy like in Korea

Reply9 hrsEdited

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