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College campuses become focus of debate over what constitutes free speech
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8,872 views Oct 13, 2023
Since the attack by Hamas and Israel’s ongoing response, there have been bitter debates on many college campuses over which side bears responsibility. This plays into already raging debates at many schools over free speech and academic freedom. Judy Woodruff visited four colleges to understand how this fits into the nation's political divide. It's part of her series, America at a Crossroads.
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Transcript
0:02
geoff: Since the terror attack
0:07
by hamas and Israel's ongoing
0:08
response, there have been bitter
0:10
debates on many college campuses
0:11
over who bears responsibility.
0:14
This plays into already raging
0:15
debates at many schools over
0:16
free speech and increasingly
0:18
academic freedom.
0:19
Judy woodruff visited four
0:22
colleges in an effort to
0:23
understand how this all fits
0:25
into America's deep political
0:26
divide.
0:26
It is part of her ongoing series
0:29
"America at a crossroads."
0:30
>> [Chanting]
0:36
>> It is disgusting.
0:37
Disgusting.
0:39
It is disgusting.
0:40
Judy: These are just some of the
0:43
things invited guests to college
0:45
campuses have heard in recent
0:46
years, as they were shouted
0:49
down, mocked, and otherwise
0:50
prevented from speaking.
0:57
In one incident at New York's
1:01
Cornell university last year,
1:02
conservative commentator and
1:03
colder was met with forceful --
1:05
Ann Coulter was met with
1:08
forceful protests.
1:10
Students inside the room
1:12
repeatedly disrupted her speech.
1:13
>> Ms. Coulter is going to stop
1:17
her speech if we are not able to
1:18
hear her.
1:20
If you would like to protest,
1:21
there is a space to do that
1:22
outside.
1:22
Judy: Until she walked out after
1:25
20 minutes.
1:31
Nick wising, the president of
1:35
Cornell Democrats and others,
1:37
protested outside the law school
1:38
where Coulter was speaking.
1:40
Did you think it was a good
1:41
thing she had been shouted down?
1:42
>> Her brand is controversy.
1:45
But I think we need to be very
1:46
careful about hatred
1:49
masquerading as argumentation.
1:51
Judy: But did you think she
1:54
should have been allowed to
1:54
speak?
1:55
>> I think it was pretty
1:58
immature the way that people
2:01
interrupted her speech.
2:02
Judy: Arman chancellor is a
2:05
member of Cornell Republicans.
2:08
She was in the room during the
2:09
event.
2:09
>> I think it shows a dislike of
2:13
Republicans more broadly, and
2:15
conservatives.
2:16
Even before she spoke, there
2:18
were lots of attacks at
2:21
Republicans themselves.
2:21
Judy: Rebecca wrote about the
2:25
incident in the student
2:25
newspaper, the Cornell sun.
2:30
>> I don't think>> We should be
2:31
endorsing views that are racist
2:32
or sexist or anything like that.
2:34
But I do think it is important
2:36
to hear all of these views
2:37
because when you are out in the
2:38
real world, I think you hear
2:41
people discussing things that
2:44
are not for the good of society.
2:47
You have to learn how to react.
2:48
Judy: Not all students agree.
2:52
According to recent polling by
2:53
the foundation for into jewel
2:55
rights and expression -- for
2:57
individual rights and
2:57
expression, 62% of U.S. College
3:03
students said shouting down a
3:05
speaker was acceptable to some
3:05
degree.
3:08
20% said using violence to
3:10
disrupt a speaking event would
3:11
be acceptable to some degree.
3:14
In recent years, there have been
3:17
increasing attempts by students
3:18
to dis-invite or shut down
3:18
speakers, with dozens of
3:21
incidents each year.
3:25
And Americans across the
3:25
political spectrum say they view
3:28
colleges as unfriendly to
3:29
conservative ideas.
3:32
Just 20% say they feel
3:34
conservatives have a lot of
3:35
freedom to express their views
3:35
on campus, according to polling
3:39
done by the associated press.
3:43
Following the Ann Coulter
3:47
incident at Cornell, the
3:47
students who interrupted her
3:48
were sanctioned by the
3:51
university, and Cornell
3:51
president Martha Pollock
3:54
announced the freedom of
3:55
expression is the theme of this
3:56
academic year.
3:57
>> Free expression is critical
4:00
to everything we do in the
4:00
university.
4:01
Judy: Her school is one of a
4:04
group of 13 universities that
4:06
have banded together to
4:06
highlight their concern about
4:07
this issue.
4:08
>> I felt it was a moment where
4:12
free expression is under attack
4:13
from both sides of the political
4:14
spectrum, and it seemed
4:17
important that universities like
4:18
ours take the lead.
4:20
There are students and others
4:21
who look at Ann Coulter and look
4:24
at that message and say, that is
4:25
not a message we should hear.
4:27
That is a message of hate.
4:29
Why should we have to listen to
4:29
it?
4:31
The problem with declaring
4:33
things as hate speech and
4:33
putting them out of bounds is
4:35
someone has to get to decide
4:36
what counts as hate speech.
4:38
It is really very dangerous to
4:42
seed the right to express your
4:45
views to someone else.
4:46
History has shown us over and
4:48
over that when you cede that
4:50
right, it is the marginal groups
4:51
that lose.
4:56
>> On college campuses in
4:57
particular, there is not much
4:57
civil discourse going on at all.
4:58
Judy: Ilya Shapiro does a
5:04
constitutional scholar who spent
5:05
years at the cato institute and
5:08
was briefly the executive
5:08
director director of the
5:09
Georgetown law school's center
5:11
for the constitution.
5:14
That job was interrupted almost
5:16
immediately by an investigation
5:17
into a tweet Shapiro wrote just
5:19
before he started, when
5:22
president Biden committed to
5:23
nominating a black woman to the
5:24
supreme court.
5:24
>> It didn't sit right with me
5:28
that president Biden said he was
5:30
restricting his search by race
5:30
and sex.
5:32
And late at night on Twitter,
5:35
not a best practice -- I don't
5:36
recommend this -- I fired off
5:39
what is a hot take before going
5:40
to bed.
5:41
I didn't phrase it the way I
5:42
would have wished.
5:43
Judy: Schapiro says because he
5:46
meant this court would have
5:52
a lesser black woman.
5:52
>> And we would end up with
5:56
someone who was less qualified,
5:58
in this case, a less qualified
5:59
black woman.
6:00
I didn't phrase that very well.
6:03
That provoked a firestorm and
6:03
led to four months of
6:05
investigation.
6:06
Judy: Georgetown administrators
6:10
ultimately cleared Schapiro of
6:11
wrongdoing on a technicality.
6:13
Nevertheless, he resigned in
6:14
protest.
6:15
He now contends his
6:18
experience is representative of
6:20
a general climate of fear and
6:21
censorship on campuses
6:23
across the nation.
6:23
>> There is a bureaucracy that
6:27
has sprung up, particularly the
6:29
diversity and equity inclusion
6:32
offices, that I think phone
6:32
meant and illiberal trend to
6:36
stifle freedom of space.
6:37
>> I want you to disagree with
6:39
me.
6:39
I need you to disagree with me.
6:41
I look at it through a different
6:43
lens.
6:43
Judy: Weathers the right or the
6:45
left, in response to what
6:47
everyone virtually agrees is a
6:53
hyper politically
6:54
conscious atmosphere, some
6:54
colleges are taking steps to
6:55
encourage productive
6:56
conversations among students and
6:57
faculty.
6:57
>> I have to understand your
7:00
experiences and you have to
7:01
understand mine.
7:01
Judy: The American university
7:04
project on civic dialogue
7:07
created what they call "Disagree
7:08
with a professor" sessions.
7:11
>> My position is we
7:13
should keep that option that a
7:16
juvenile is tried as an adult.
7:17
Judy: On Wednesday night,
7:19
professor Kevin Boyle gave a
7:21
lecture designed to provoke
7:22
disagreement among students.
7:23
>> Juvenile sentencing and
7:26
juvenile cases are about
7:29
rehabilitation and helping kids
7:30
and juveniles.
7:31
But adult prison is a sentence
7:35
to nothingness, you know?
7:37
Judy: American university
7:41
students we spoke to had varied
7:43
opinions about the state of
7:43
dialogue at their school.
7:45
Do you feel that when you finish
7:47
school and you are out in the
7:48
world that you will be able to
7:50
have conversations with people
7:51
who have profoundly different
7:52
political views from you?
7:53
>> Yes.
7:56
I feel I have been exposed so
7:59
much that when it does come up
8:00
again in the future, I am not
8:02
going to be shaken by or taken
8:03
aback or scared to speak up.
8:06
Judy: Is there a sense that
8:09
students can speak up and speak
8:10
their mind?
8:10
>> Well, I don't think so.
8:13
If you are looking for a job and
8:15
looking to have a social life,
8:17
you don't want to be at the
8:19
center of a firestorm around
8:19
politics.
8:20
Judy: Professor Laura sch
8:27
wartz founded the project on
8:28
civic dialogue, which hosts the
8:32
disagree with a professor
8:33
sessions, and encourages
8:34
students to engage in dialogue.
8:36
>> We are at a time where many
8:39
people instead of coming to
8:42
conclusions based on inquiry
8:45
check what their team thinks
8:47
about an issue and says, that is
8:49
what I think about an issue.
8:50
When you poll students, the
8:54
overwhelming majority, 80% or
8:56
more, say it is really important
8:57
to hear from different
8:58
perspectives.
9:00
But we don't have a lot of
9:01
practice in our society doing
9:02
that.
9:03
Judy: But even as a number of
9:06
campuses like American and
9:09
Cornell moved to confront
9:11
concerns about limited speech,
9:12
there is a growing worry among
9:14
other schools as conservative
9:17
state governments are moving in
9:18
the opposite direction.
9:20
Eight states now have laws on
9:21
the books that limit what state
9:24
run college and university
9:26
professors can teach in their
9:27
classrooms.
9:29
Florida's law is the most
9:29
specific, and so far, the most
9:32
restrictive.
9:33
The law, sb-266, makes it
9:38
illegal to teach students that
9:40
systemic racism, sexism,
9:42
oppression, and privilege are
9:44
inherent in the institutions of
9:45
the United States.
9:46
It also restricts funding for
9:47
any campus activities that
9:51
advocate for diversity, equity,
9:53
and inclusion, or promote and
9:55
engage in political or social
9:56
activism.
9:56
>> We want to be able to have a
9:59
government of freedom.
10:00
It is very simple.
10:01
Judy: Professor Sarah Hernandez
10:05
teaches sociology at the new
10:06
college of Florida, a public
10:09
four-year school in Sarasota.
10:11
She also is the lead plaintiff
10:13
in a lawsuit against the state
10:14
of Florida that challenges
10:16
sb-266.
10:17
>> The legislation is saying
10:21
that the state has the authority
10:23
to dictate what can or cannot be
10:26
taught in the classroom in terms
10:29
of gender equality, issues of
10:32
race and ethnic inequality.
10:34
So, they don't allow one to be
10:36
teaching about activism.
10:37
Judy: So, you have made changes
10:39
in what Yo teach as a
10:42
result of this?
10:43
>> The changes I have made are
10:47
primarily in informing the
10:48
students that what I am telling
10:50
them could be interpreted as
10:51
being illegal.
10:53
But always with the concern that
10:54
I just might be fired at any
10:56
point.
10:56
Judy: Governor Ron Desantis took
11:00
a special interest in the new
11:01
college earlier this year.
11:02
>> Some of these niche subjects
11:05
like critical race theory, other
11:08
types of courses and majors,
11:12
Florida is getting out of that
11:13
game.
11:13
Judy: Igniting protests when he
11:18
replaced six members of the
11:19
board of trustees with
11:19
conservative activists who fired
11:21
the college president, denied
11:23
tenure to professors, and
11:25
planned to phase out the gender
11:26
studies program.
11:28
>> We have lost a lot of
11:30
professors.
11:35
They have other options.
11:36
Similarly, we have staff that
11:39
some have been let go.
11:41
I am thinking of the Dean of
11:46
diversity and inclusion.
11:47
Judy: A student of professor
11:51
Hernandez is a senior who joined
11:52
the lawsuit as a plaintiff.
11:54
>> I am an urban studies
11:56
student, and we no longer have
11:58
any urban studies faculty.
12:00
A lot of the urban studies
12:01
programming and classes directly
12:05
challenge the laws that are
12:05
currently in place.
12:06
Judy: Gabby Bautista is a senior
12:09
who has been organizing students
12:12
to protest the changes at new
12:13
college.
12:15
>> We have been trying to go
12:16
with this tagline, your school
12:17
is next, because in actuality
12:19
that is the real fear, that we
12:21
are the canary in the coal mine.
12:22
Judy: 40% of the new college
12:26
faculty has quit since the
12:28
Desantis chosen board of
12:29
trustees was installed.
12:29
>> It is a very tense
12:33
environment.
12:33
Judy: For her part, professor
12:37
Hernandez has decided to stay
12:37
put.
12:39
>> I left my country of birth
12:40
many years ago.
12:41
There was something real in
12:45
political oppression.
12:45
I am done running.
12:47
I feel it is important to stand
12:49
and say no.
12:51
I believe in the importance of
12:54
academic freedom.
12:55
And unless somebody stays and
12:59
stands for it, we just might
13:01
lose it.
13:01
Judy: For the pbs newshour, I'm
13:04
Judy woodruff in Sarasota,
13:06
Florida.
13:06
♪♪
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