동아시아의 평화와 화해의 정치학 Scrapbook: Korean War Interrogation Rooms

2021-11-17

Korean War Interrogation Rooms | C-SPAN.org

Korean War Interrogation Rooms | C-SPAN.org

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Monica Kim

00:04:44

Thank you so much. It's actually incredibly meaningful to hear about all the different communities that have come together to make this kind of gathering possible and i'm really looking forward to the q and a discussion about the book. When we look ahead to 2020, which seems significant to all of us in this room. It holds significance in terms of the korean war. Next year, the korean war will reach its 70th year of conflict. Without any official end, the korean war is the one hot war that continues until this day. We also take for granted the cease-fire that was signed in july 1953. the hyper militarized demilitarized zone in korea is only one side of evidence of the korean war.

I am going to turn to the 1953 cease-fire, namely the one issue that effectively delayed the signing of the cease-fire for over 18 months. All agenda items at the negotiating table, including the decision about where the cease-fire line would he had been settled except for one. The prisoner of war repatriation issue.

The u.s. Representatives put a new proposal on the table. One for voluntary repatriation. Today i will examine what i consider to be a fundamental shift in the character of the korean war at the beginning of 1952, with the u.s. Introduction of the voluntary repatriation proposal where the civil war affectively stopped being waged over the violation of a border to the violation of the individual human subjects, the prisoner. It is a contestation over human interiority.

It has often been a footnote in the korean war, but by moving into the interrogation room, i argue it represents a critical legacy of the korean war where it is not simply a vestige of the cold war, but a demonstration of the year resolution of mid century conflicts. So rather than the cold war binaries between communism and anti-communism i will be focusing on sovereignty and the workings of racial ideology across the pacific and multiple wars.

In other words, i am interested in parsing how the legacy of the ongoing war informs today. Telling the story of the korean war from the interrogation room represents the cold war on a scale in compassing asia and other global scale that encompasses new delhi and geneva, switzerland. It provides a different mapping of the war and its significance to the usual map that centers on the 30th parallel.

It's the more traditional visualizing of the korean war conflicts. By considering the p.o.w. Issue, we end up with a map of the war on the korean peninsula which looks like this. Often considered to be a marginal and peripheral figure in the war, the p.o.w. Would soon enter the spotlight in the world.

First, there are the camps. And then camp number five under north korean control. There are about 3500 p.o.w.'s. I will begin with the kidnapping later called a mutiny i the u.s. Army, and i will in by examining the most infamous memory, let's say, from the korean war, something that is rather ironic given the war's status in the united states. I will be examining the experiences of u.s. P.o.w.'s in kim number five. We will move to kim number five by way of examination of why the interrogation room became a subject of intense debate and. So, let's begin.

On may 7, 1952 off the southeastern coast of the peninsula, six pows kidnapped the brigadier general. News of the mutiny quickly reverberated through the highest ranks. The u.s. Army sent in troopers, percussion grenades. For an event that captured attention across the globe, the mapping itself occurred in rather undramatic fashion. In the early afternoon, the brigadier general met with six european pows who were meeting with him to discuss certain complaints they had. They talked through the barbed wire fence as you can see. At 1.1 of the p.o.w.'s this particular fellow right here, a rather large man of considerable strength walked slowly through the gates to allow a truck full of tents to go through and he stretched his arm, pretended to yon and grabbed god. They literally carry him in two the compound. The whole affair only lasted a few minutes. After they carry him into the compound they unfurl a large sign and it said, we have captured. -- he made the sign in english -- he will not be harmed. If you shoot, his life will be in danger. So, the reaction from the u.s. Press was pretty immediate. The press release sent the u.s. Into an absolute frenzy. The eighth army order to free the general held by red p.o.w.'s. Each statement echoed a similar sentiment. Why have the p.o.w.'s, who are now characterized as bearing -- being oriental communist fanatics, why were they -- why have they captured the commander? It was disclosed the communists had asked for 1000 sheets of paper, presumably riding paper and that had been sent to the islands. So, the request for 1000 sheets of paper points us in the direction toward understanding why the kidnapping invited such widespread anxiety. The event signal that the script of warfare was no longer predictable or stable. As they defined and redefined the laws of war in the aftermath of the devastation, the official outbreak of the korean war revealed an undeniably curious situation. It appears states were no longer waging war anymore. When the press asked if the u.s. Was at war, truman replied simply "we are not at war." and he said the u.s. Was involved in a police action. We must remember war was a privilege accorded only to recognized state. Only sovereign entities could engage in a legitimate extension of policymaking involving two recognizable states and nowhere was this laid more bear than at the negotiation tables at the 30th parallel. The united nations, which was clearly not a nationstate, into the conflict and this would be a rolled the united nations would not take up again until the first of war. As for china and north korea, the united nations did not recognize either states. Bass, to define what was legitimate warfare was to define who was a legitimate states. U.s. Army officials to skype -- described the situation as the communists are talking. This was not about the events of the war which were in the center of the struggle for the stakes of rec edition in the war. The pows who kidnapped dog entered the spotlights. The representative for the united nations together a proposal for voluntary repatriation and pows would be free to "choose" whether they wanted to return to their homelands upon the signing of the cease-fire. A u.s. Military interrogation room -- this was going to be a space of what they called free will. 1949, they called for mandatory repatriation. We need more discussion here. It was due to this debate that the interrogation room became the flashpoint of a heated international controversy. As the interrogation room came under scrutiny, this became a measure of the respective states's legitimacy and this is what was really stunning for me and my research, but you have this moment in 1952 where different states and organizations are actually putting forward the argument that there interrogation room was going to be the most efficacious in terms of democratic processes. I found that very stunning. And that's really out my deeper dive into this material began. My book reveals how the global visions of the u.s. Secretary of state dean addison, indian president nehru, the south korean president, and the north korean premier were contingent on thousands of acts of interrogation, disciplining subjects. The book opens up in u.s. Occupied south korea and japanese american internment camps and it follows 4000 japanese interrogators to korea. It traces the postwar journeys of p.o.w.'s by the united nations to india, brazil, and argentina and finally maps out the movement of p.o.w.'s through the interrogation network through pow camp's. Obviously i will not be touching on all of this during my talk today, but if you have questions about the other interrogation rooms i would be very happy to engage with that. Let's begin with how this became the central issue on the armistice negotiation tables. By august of 1951, the newest addition by the truman administration to basically the national security council, the joint chiefs of staff, etc., etc., truman had created something called these psychological strategy war and the mandate was to create the vision, the holistic psychological warfare for the united states. So they had already honed in on the p.o.w. As a possible sites on which to configure the cold war aims of the u.s. Administration. The figure all of the p.o.w. Would this centrally divide a purpose for u.s. Military involvement. It was already a difficult task to mobilize mass support behind what truman conceded was a police action under the united nations. Since one could not fashion a compelling figure of the enemy, they fashioned a figure of rescue. The p.o.w.. There were two. Figures, one under soviet occupation in the north. This essentially created a competition between which type of putative decolonization was valid, effective, and democratic. The u.s. And the united nations declared the southern republic of korea of the only sovereign state on the peninsula. To have them to choose not to repatriate to the northern dprk would be to evaluate the american project through militarization in the south. So they propose to call the p.o.w.'s essentially political refugees, allowing the united states to adhere to the principal, if not the letter, of the law like the geneva convention. What is important to note is from the outset, the u.s. Emphasizes individual choice is at stake and the u.s. Interrogation room, of all places becomes exemplary of democratic governance. Voluntary repatriation is considered freedom of choice and he says that mandatory repatriation would be forced repatriation. He goes so far as to say this is a bill of rights for individuals . So, the act of saying yes or no in the interrogation room is essentially framed as a moment of liberal individual choice. But there is something puzzling here. Truman is essentially arguing the u.s. Is going to have some sort of authority because it's going to be able to know the desires of the p.o.w.. But how could the u.s. Military claim to know the desires of these p.o.w.'s. Who were they? There were 50,000 that claim to be from the south originally. People who were drafted or had journey -- joined the northern korean army. And think about this. If you were a south korean soldier and taken as a pow by the north korean army, but later on when the u.s. Military is given the greenlight to cross over the 38th parallel and if you have those north korean troops surrendered to the u.s. Military, what ended up happening is the u.s. Military looks at the south korean p.o.w.'s and said, ok, we don't know what to do. So, then, everybody became p.o.w.'s. You had south korean military officials as p.o.w.'s and that is important to note. Another thing that is important to note -- after the entrance of the chinese volunteer forces, there becomes a new informal policy where the u.s. Military is allowed to roundup entire villages. So then you could actually have three generations of a family behind of barbed wire fence. This is important to know because it is a population for which the u.s. Military would say yes or no. Obviously for this kind of population, it is complicated and it really highlights how in 1952 the parallel is not considered a natural, permanent border. It is showing how permanent this order is on the ground where they are considering home or what they are fighting for in terms of a legitimate state on the ground. Now when we go into the interrogation room of the u.s. Military, it turns out to be less concerned about the p.o.w.'s and much more concerned with the interrogator. He was a u.s. Naval interpreter. And this lecture gained -- at the heart of that was a template -- while the process was not as simple, he said it might not be as easy as eating coconuts. There are six steps in a simple process. Get the coconuts. Make sure there is milk in its. Then you cut it open. Remove the milk and you give it to the thirsty party. So, here the central primary concern is how good was the interrogator? They claim to know the desires of the korean motivations was also the rationale of the american ability to govern. The simple yes or no fit all too well within the knowledge of the naive oriental. As i move to talking about interrogators, this gives us a frame for thinking about the korean war not starting in 1950. and thinking about a transpacific and trans war frame for the korean war. In practice, -- they grafted and recruited translators for the korean war. Approximately 400,000 were in the korean war and the majority spent their adolescence in the internment camps of world war ii behind large wire. An associate press journalist and you can see that there are multiple people involved in the interrogation. You have the lieutenant from louisiana who is the head of the team. The team included six men in total. You have the policeman who did the initial interrogation. You have a south korean army lieutenant who had grown up in china and in japan, so he is conversant in manager and. And you have the you first lieutenants from salinas, california and also a private who is from honolulu. I found this particular ap article in the same archival folder and this never actually made it to press. I believe the u.s. Military officials decided to's and service in part because he essentially reveals the labor involved and the numerous variables in the production of a single interrogation report and i would argue the most important variable is the desire to fill his whole -- his own role in this racialized her -- hierarchy of labor. Whoever was on the team, that person was marked as white or caucasian. Let me introduce you to sam me a motel -- sam miyamoto. When he arrived he was instructed -- in these repatriation screening rooms he did not have -- this is the one time he does not have a white u.s. Military intelligence officer and it's here that he was to persuade thehe was able to persuade a pow to not repatriate but to assimilate as a citizen subject of the u.s.. Here, his own consent to participate in the u.s. Project was supposed to be instructive for the postcolonial prisoner. In 2007, i conducted a series of oral history interviews with mia moto -- miyamoto. He recollected that almost without fail, korean communist pows would usually sit on the ground before they entered a u.s. Military interrogation room. When they noticed it was him, they did not sit on the ground and wanted to ask him a question. This is how he described the encounters. The p.o.w. Wants to know, you are in a concentration camp, your own government put you into a concentration camp, why are you not fighting with us? And miyamoto very notably replied i am here because i was ordered to come here. I did not come here by choice. I was ordered to join the army and i am ordered to study the korean language. And i am ordered to come here and talk to you about this. So inside the u.s. Military interrogation room, we have a reluctant interrogator, and we have a defiant korean p.o.w. Both really challenge our ideas of what might happen in an interrogation room during the korean war. And the idea that oriental decolonization had been accomplished by the u.s. In south korea, and in terms of japanese internment, that japanese americans had also accepted that history. During the kidnapping, one important in and -- important demand they were making was bring us back to the island. They wanted the cessation of the repatriation interrogation room. The reason they were asking for that is they were claiming the u.s. Was forcing subjects of the dprk to renounce the state's sovereign claim over them. So let's return to 1976. for the three days he was in the p.o.w. Compound, he had to attend multiple meetings. The pows selectively formed the prisoner of war representatives association. This active writing was central to the project of the pows, and this is where, when the p.o.w. Demand for thousands of sheets of paper it's -- is significant for us to take notice. It created a bureaucracy that would approach the p.o.w. As the subject of estate not as a wartime category and force the international community to ask what type of political collective body the dprk was. And to argue that it was a legitimate state. Here, having us think through compound 76 as being a space of diplomatic association. Pows were aware of their position on the international stage and now they claim the ability to govern the pows themselves. It was this claim that became the transition -- transgression that u.s. Military leaders would label as a mutiny. Once it was clear that the kidnapping had been carefully planned in advance, pows had prepared a tidy room and placed a guard there, and they would say he was there to maintain dodd's prestige. Dodd went to theatrical performances as a guest. He did not eat the p.o.w. Rations. He received separate food through a barbed wire fence. And they arranged to have a doctor examine him. A pow who had served as the compound doctor, not a member of the representative association. He always seems a little startled in his photo. In his interrogation, he gives us this story. He said he went to the tent in the compound to examine dog, and once he arrived -- dodd, and once he arrived, the general was taking a bath in a tub made of an oil drum. When the gentleman was finished bathing, i looked at his knees and observed they were healing. Leaving, the general gave me a pack of cigarettes. So, it's a scene where dodd is being bathed by three pows, and the type of medical attention he received really toes the line between surveillance of his body and special services to elite guests. Dodd was a prisoner, but there is no reversal of the binary hierarchy of power between the commander and p.o.w.. Instead, the p.o.w. Carefully marked both dodd's body and the space of the compound itself to establish and assert dodd's authority. Now, during the war, the u.s. Military said pows had not committed a mutiny in the chinese and korean camps. The proposal for voluntary repatriation claim pows were able to execute free will without duress. This later becomes a double edge sword for the u.s. Because after the planning of the cease-fire, 21 american pows choose to stay in china. With a proposal for voluntary p.o.w. Repatriation, the u.s. Has turned in historically vulnerable figure into a political subject of the international community, one who made a choice and is under the united nations. However, when confronted with these 21 pows who chose to stay in china, the u.s. Military, government, and public had to neutralize these pows and the potential disability of their politics by rendering them again as vulnerable subjects. And this is where brainwashing becomes the term the grabs the media spotlight. What does interrogation look like under north korean interrogators? After his release from the north korean and chinese pow camps, richard, a sergeant in the u.s. Army, recalled a korean major who was responsible for individually questioning every p.o.w., for english-speaking koreans 20 years -- p.o.w.. He was an english-speaking korean, 25 years of age. Pows would have to give their name, serial number, and the respective incomes of their parents. After that, he posed questions that people would hear the end of many interrogations to come. State your hopes and desires. He was sincere and appeared to have no hatred from america. After posing this final question, the major once explained his own hopes and desires. Again, this is according to a p.o.w., the major stated that individual hopes and desires were for americans to live in freedom and koreans to live in peace. I have chosen to focus on north korean rather than chinese interrogators because there is a critical difference that comes out in the archives. Chinese interrogators were much more interested in technical and tactical investigation, which makes a lot of sense. Many chinese troops were on the ground. However, with north korean interrogators, they were more interested in establishing what you might call a more horizontal relationship with the u.s. P.o.w. And what i consider to be a form of internationalism. For example, in december of 1951, which is one year later than the intake interrogation, another pow named sheldon talks about experiencing a different kind of interrogation, more extensive by north korean interrogators. Two korean lieutenant colonel's, one named kim, took him to a korean home outside the camp, telling him they just wanted to have a talk with him on general matters pertaining to life in the u.s. And korea. They give him cigarettes, tea, brandy. They sing home sweet home, home on the range, my old kentucky home, and you are my sunshine. Later on, he says to the u.s. Military interrogator he thinks kim sang the songs because he was educated by u.s. Missionary at some point. At some point, the conversation takes a turn toward controversial political subjects such as the worker's plight in the u.s., the success of communism in korea, why not in the u.s., etc. He quotes marx and engels as a way to get more information from kim and son. At the end of the sensitive interrogation, they bring foss back to the camp, and as they are walking back, according to foss, kim turns to him and says don't tell the chinese about what just happened. The chinese did not understand the problem. And they were not as clever as they thought they were. Kim also emphasized that north korean communists were closer to the desires of world developments. He insisted and advised foss to make sure he went to a university upon return to the u.s. And to study political science. In the university that was recommended to him was the university of new mexico. In the portrait of these oriental interrogators as i'm going through the archives, something stunning starts emerging, which is that the chinese and north korean interrogators themselves had attended universities in the united states. Or they had longer ties with the oss during world war ii. I think it's really the interrogators that make the u.s. Military very nervous. A list of books available at the library with camp number five illustrates pretty extensive knowledge about literature in the west that deals with class and race. Now, for the u.s. Military, they had to create a summary of findings based on all of the interrogations that the u.s. Counterintelligence corps was doing while returning pows, and they had to publish a report. In the report, it's very clear the thing that is puzzling them the most is the oriental interrogator. They say while it's true that some physical measures were employed, these consisted chiefly of isolation and a small space, a few sharp blows, relatively mild beatings, and this all far it's fun -- this all falls far short of torture commonly associated with oriental captivity. Here, what's troubling the military officials is that if the chinese and north korean interrogation rooms are as described, up carious proximity -- a precarious proximity occurs between the interrogation rooms of the americans and the north koreans and the chinese. It's a lesson in the anatomy of subduction and subversion and the art used in oriental interrogation techniques were not outright torture, but were not rational and appealed to basic desires. The target of desires is key to understanding how race and class played an important role in the reliance on the idea of brainwashing. The targets were usually soldiers of color or from the working class. Indeed, the three p.o.w. Singled out from the u.s. Military as potential menaces to the u.s. Included an african-american, a filipino, and a japanese-american. The u.s. Military attempted to portray u.s. Nationalism as irrational desire. Thus, the utility of the frame of brainwashing. The investigation report juxtaposes this with what they considered rational behavior exhibited by pows in the camps. For example, the ku klux klan. The u.s. Military evaluation of all the interrogations concludes that this organization, which was formed in most of the camps and which included a few well-meaning individuals who sent anonymous notes with a signature kkk also administered to progressives and informers. When an american pow like african-american clarence adams, one of the 21 who decided to stay in china, when he announces after signing the cease-fire that he is not repatriating to the u.s. As an act of protest against jim crow in america, you can understand how the experience of threatening violence by white supremacy was neither a threat nor distant for american pows in camps along the river. At first glance, it appears the u.s. Military incorrectly theorizes the oriental interrogator, but i think the deeper anxiety at the heart of the inquiry was that the oriental interrogator might have correctly theorized the american p.o.w., soldier, or citizen. In fact, the underlying fear, and one question, would be what if the oriental new the american better than he did himself? In all of u.s. Foreign policy history, this is -- the korean war is the catalyst for what is often called the blueprint of the national security state for u.s. Cold war ambitions. A statement made by secretary of state dean atkinson in 1953, reflecting back on u.s. Involvement on the korean peninsula into 1950, and the quote goes, and i think a few of you already know, "korea came along and saved us." korea gave us the impetus to implement. Korea moved a great many things from the realm of theory and right into the realm of actuality and urgency. What is remarkable about these lines of interrogators as pows is the shift on global politics during the korean war. Through the interrogation room, both ordinary and exceptional, we see how individual persons became the terrain for warfare and its -- in the mid 20th century during the postcolonial war that was sufficiently not a war. By moving into the interrogation room, we can extend the significance of the war much further than it being a one time flashpoint. Interrogation also was not a one-time event. It was a landscape people had to navigate over and over again. We can extend the history of 1952 the intelligence and interrogation networks established by the u.s. Ic, north korea, the japanese internment camps in california and beyond, but also someone like clarence adams who opted to stay in china. He decides to come back to the new -- to tennessee. He is hounded by the fbi. He is called before the house un-american activities committee. He is hounded by the kkk. He's unable to find work in memphis. He sets up a chops of a restaurant in memphis. -- top sulli -- chop suey restaurant in memphis. Where is the ongoing korean war and its legacy in our every day? Thank you very much. [applause] show less text

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