China‘s Silence on Gaza is Strategic | Zhang Sheng

China‘s Silence on Gaza is Strategic | Zhang Sheng

Neutrality Studies

295,814 views  Nov 22, 2025  Interviews

The United States just managed to pass a highly controversial resolution in the United Nations Security Council, which basically transforms Gaza into a UN Mandate and makes Donald Trump its governor. Resolution 2803 has alredy been heavily criticized by  Human Rights experts like Francesca Albanese and Craig Mokhiber. The puzzeling thing in this is that Russia and China, both abstained from voting, thereby helping the resolution to pass. 

To help understand China’s position on West Asia, I’m today joined by ZHANG Sheng, a Non-resident Visiting Researcher at Turkey’s KUASIA  (Coach) University, and the author of a very popular video on Youtube where he recently explained Chinese approaches toward Gaza.

Links: The mentioned video:    • Zhang Sheng: Why Chinese Netizens Call Pal...   One of Sheng’s articles on today’s topic: https://www.tni.org/en/article/from-g... Academic article on how the CPC and the Japanese Red Army vuewed Oakestube: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/... Neutrality Studies substack: https://pascallottaz.substack.com Goods Store: https://neutralitystudies-shop.fourth...

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Introduction

00:00:50 China's Historical Stance on Palestine

00:06:54 Israel's Failed Propaganda Campaign in China

00:17:32 How Gaza Shifted Public Opinion on Israel

00:21:43 Why China Abstained on the UN Gaza Resolution

00:32:26 China's Future Foreign Policy in West Asia

00:37:31 China's Definition of "Terrorism" vs. "Armed Struggle"

00:46:23 Perceiving Western Double Standards on "Genocide"

00:53:53 The Re-Emerging Discourse on Zionism in China

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Introduction

The United States just managed to pass a highly controversial resolution in the United Nations Security Council which

basically transforms Gaza into a UN mandate and makes Donald Trump its governor. Resolution 2803 has already

been heavily criticized by human rights experts like Franchescan and Craig Mccyber. The puzzling thing in this is

that Russia and China both abstain from voting, thereby helping the resolution to pass. To help understand China's

position on West Asia, I'm today joined by Tang Sheng, a non-resident visiting

researcher at Turkey's Coach University and the author of a very popular video

on YouTube where he recently explained Chinese approaches toward Gaza. Shen,

welcome. Nice to join you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much for doing this. Um because let's maybe start with your um

China's Historical Stance on Palestine

video that you actually posted a couple of months ago and that by now has more than half a million views in which you

try to explain what's how China is approaching like

politically and and socially uh West Asia um the Palestine question. Could

you maybe give us the gist of what you what you explained in that video already? Yeah. So basically like the main uh the

main theme I was trying to convey is that uh uh first China and Palestinian

national liberation movement has a very long history of solidarity and camaraderie existing that you can trace

it back even to at least the 1960s and

if you are trying to talk about China's friendship with Arab countries in general especially the uh left linking

national nationalist liberation movement. You can trace it back even to uh 1950s and since then the Chinese has

been trying to support the Palestinian uh uh uh struggle for liberation and uh

uh that thing continued until today. So I was uh trying to explain like how this thing historically evolved and um uh

what are the different changes like different phases it went through from 1950s to uh 60s and 70s. 60s and 70s

were the most uh let's say when China was the having the most radical stance in uh in in in

supporting the Palestinian liberation movement and uh have the most radical opinion over the over the Palestinian

Israeli conflict in the entire among the five permanent members of the security

council of the United Nations. And when it gets into 1980s

mainly influenced by uh s events such as the Oslo accord and also like before

that the Egyptian uh peace talk with Israelis and things like that the Chinese stance become much more moderate

and also because of China's growing economic um investment in the region so

China started to become closer to Israel uh the at this time. But meanwhile, it's

so it comes to a very rather self-contradictory and awkward

situation that China in political sense has been supporting Palestine until today. But in the economic sense, for

the last about 10 years, China's investment in Israel has been going up

going like very very closely until the the the war in Gaza, which we are going to talk about in a minute. And uh in

that phase basically the Chinese were obsessed with uh economic trade and

things like that. And um and also in 19 uh in sorry in in 2016

the Chinese were I would personally say that but I mean like not everyone

believed the same thing but like I would personally say that the Chinese were fall to the trap of Netanyahu in 2016

when Netanyahu came to Beijing and he was trying to he say a lot of like

pretty things and inviting China to invest in the Hiba Bay port and which

the Chinese did and uh that turned out to be a very bad

deal as we are going to talk about. So that's for that phase. And the third one I was the third phase I think most

people are mostly are mostly interested is what happened after the Gaza war

right. So like to uh so what happened after the Gaza war is that uh right

after the war started right the Israelis were trying to do what they did into in

every other countries they are trying to push the Chinese to in term of a

political stance to condemn the Alaka operation which alaka flood operation

which the Chinese refused. The Chinese took a use a very ambivalent type of

tongue saying that well we condemn any violence against all civilians committed by any actors and they just don't want

to make any like pro-Israeli statement and they just want to like make a more

balanced and pro peace type of statement saying that we just don't want to see civilians getting hurt and that thing is

uh the main stance of China on on this on on on the October 7th issue and

Israelis were not happy with it because they were thinking that you have to be like the United States or Europe doing

and you have to condemn the organization by name and you have to uh like use a

very like one-sided supporting Israeli narrative and the Chinese government

continue not to do that and um there were a lot of like diplomatic conflicts

going on in this era And that also leads to

within Israel there's a increasing number of interest groups trying to argue to the government saying that we

should basically like dis uh uh the way we should like strip China's uh

investment away from the Hi-Fi Bay port. We should just don't let the Chinese to

continue run the Hi-Fi Bay port because they don't support our war on Palestine.

So that became a huge issue and also when the Israeli aggression into

southern Lebanon was going on, Hifa was quite unstable. So that again also like

hurted the security of the Chinese investment there. The Chinese were um so

the the trade volume between China and Israel actually dropped a lot like that that's the first drop ever since the

2013. So the the the Israelis actually actively discussed how to punish China

Israel's Failed Propaganda Campaign in China

for not falling in line. Yes. Yes, they do. Yeah. And uh you can

you can find that in their official media they were trying to like literally that I think the the chairman of the

Ashold port which is Israeli governmentr run port. the basically the the chairman

of that uh port was writing publicly on Israeli media, right? And also like

wrote a special report to the Israeli government telling them that the Chinese were not on our board in our uh in the

on the October 7th issue, but also like on the Gaza issue in general. And uh for

that sake we think that the Chinese are not in line with the national security of Israel and we should just take like

we should tear our statement like our treaty with China like China and Israel

signed this deal for like running the hab port for like 25 years and uh so

basically he was arguing that we should like tear this apart and that thing became very popular in Israel in the

among the discussion and besides that the Israeli embassy also have been

trying to do a lot of activities in Beijing, trying to basically like

mobilize their friends in Beijing to force the Chinese government to condemn

Hamas and to like take a more pro-Israel stance on the Gaza war. So that those

things are the the origin, I would say, the origin of China's diplomatic tension

with Israel for the last two years. How did that go down in China like in in

political Beijing but also in the larger Chinese uh social media sphere and and

public media sphere? Yeah. And I would say that the Israeli propaganda campaign ended terribly like

uh on the on the governmental side there's lots of some trace. We can talk about that later. And now we can talk

about like let's say the grassroots the how the the Chinese nizens reacted to

this thing is that so after the this round of the Gaza war started you know

like because it's the majority of the Chinese understand this thing as the continuation of this prolonged

Arab-Israeli conflict or and especially Israeli aggression into the Palestinian

lands and but the Israelis want to promote this idea as like October 7th is the

beginning of the universe, right? Like nothing the singular moment where a completely

utterly peaceful never ever having used its army before uh Israel was suddenly

out of the blue attacked by the most evil and vile terrorists that the world has ever seen.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. like nothing nothing existed ever before this day and this day is the birth of universe you

know like so that's the the idea they are trying to uh to promote and very

interestingly is that Israeli uh embassy in China has been spreading

misinformation I was let's use a Trump term fake news through this day because

one of the hostage taken by Hamas to Gaza her name is Noah Aragamani she's

have her mom is Chinese and she's Israeli citizen not Chinese citizen at all she was born in Israel have nothing

to do with China at all but the Israeli embassy from the first day they launched this fake news saying

that Chinese uh this woman who was born in Beijing is now taken to Gaza as

hostage and trying to like appeal to the national sentiments of the of the

Chinese masses and after that They continue to treat things like this and saying like, "Oh, she's half Chinese.

Her mom is worried about her. Netanyahu is worried about her. Netanyahu was so

worried that he personally called the Chinese embassy to say like if there's

anything the Chinese can help with rescuing this half Chinese person out of

Gaza and things like that." And first, this is fake news and like of

course she is one of the hostages. That's true, but she's not born in Beijing. She has really nothing to do

with China. And second is that when they're doing this propaganda eventually

they because this thing become a huge deal that the Chinese foreign ministry get asked about this thing like for

several times and eventually what happened is that this slightly like

let's say pro-western stance Chinese media

made an interview with the the person's mom which was the Chinese person and

she's he's really citizen now. And uh what they figure out is that first she

was one of the students that China sent out to study abroad and then she just

like tear off her agreements with the Chinese university and escaped to Israel

and married Israeli guy and never come back. She never came back. So she was supposed to come back because she got a grant

from Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because she take the scholarship from the from the Chinese uh

I think the scholarship council or something and that was in 1980s or like

1980s so she's supposed to come back to work and like to finish that agreement and basically she just tear parts of the

agreement and never came back and in that interview she was quoting quote she

said this thing she said and the the the journalist was saying that oh people think that you are not Chinese uh

citizen and are you do you have still have Chinese passports and like basically the journalist was trying to

help her to appeal to more Chinese natans and then she said the following

quoting quote she says I am not I'm Israeli citizen but does this mean that

you Chinese don't have the duty to help me and that became the most disastrous

propaganda I have ever seen so after that the Israeli embassy just never talk

about this thing anymore because they feel like this is bad. So they started to play other cards. For example, on the

women's day, they organized this event. The the the Israeli uh general uh the

consulate in Shanghai organized this event playing the feminist card, you know, and saying, "Oh, this is international women's day and there's

like female victims of the attack of October 7th and trying to like do that."

And after that they also like on using Chinese media platform they publish a

large number of statements not only like criticizing the Palestinians or the Iranians later but also criticizing the

Chinese government saying that we are like deeply disappointed that the Chinese government is not doing what we

want them to do. And uh the funny thing I'm going to share is that the Chinese

this is a Chinese owned platform right it's not Twitter it's like it's called waybo it's a basically Chinese version of Twitter the Chinese government never

shoot this thing down and uh they just leave it be like okay so this

authoritarian government is doesn't doesn't care like you publishing public statements criticizing them and but

because the Chinese natans are so furious about what the Israelis are doing both in China but also like the

the actual the crimes of war in Gaza. So they flooded all the commenting sessions

of the Israeli embassy's way account. So this only democracy of the Middle East

what they did is that they closed down the the commenting session. They closed down the communist session. they put

into the mode that only certain views like which like they select like before

can be showed in the commenting session. So this is like an amazing example of

democracy and that that in that in and of itself then also probably became another topic

within the the the blogger sphere I suppose. Yeah, exactly. So people get like really

like like amused by this thing. people like, "Oh, wow." Like, this is the the amazing democracy that like the West has

been talking about is like they're trying they cannot even like tolerant the Chinese natizens criticism to the to

the their actions. No, it's it's pretty clear by now. The freedom of speech is the freedom of you

to say what the West wants to hear. If it's something else, then it's not covered by that rule anymore. Not

covered. I mean, that's as sad as it is, but that's clear by now. So, and this in relation to Israel also at least online

must have had quite an educational effect I suppose about what Israel is also this sense of entitlement right

that that spoke so clearly from that mother of one of the the uh the

abductees right yeah exactly I think uh it's quite like

because you know like for from as I was talking about from the 80s like yeah

like China established diplomatic relationship with the regime of Israel in 1992

but since the 80s they already have some sort of like de facto relations and uh

for the last let's say 30 to 40 years a lot of because the a lot of Israeli

institutions are also investing in China and uh academically they have cooperations with the Chinese

universities and institutions as well because uh especially like Isra is quite advanced in natural science. Know it was

some high-tech stuff. So there was this very like let's say a

very close face and a lot of pro pro-Israeli propaganda also gets into

China you know before this thing and people you know like once people thought

that Israel must be a very highly like educated society and

everyone reads like there is a myth about like every Israeli person reads more than 60 books a year and that was

like the standard like stereotype of Israeli citizens in in in in Chinese

like pop culture before what is happening in Gaza in 20 20 in in in in

2023. But with what is happening in Gaza is happening the Chinese are the younger

How Gaza Shifted Public Opinion on Israel

generation of Chinese were for the first time I think they started to go back to

the Mauist traditions of 1970s. they started to read what in 197 like

there's a lot of like publications of books or documentaries made in the ma era talking about why arm struggle in

Palestine is something that China support in that era. So the young people

in China today, they were like like digging out those previous publications

of the 70s or 60s and they started to like systematically read what is

happening and what has happened in what was the origin of the Palestinian issue

and they started to form their own independent thinking on the Palestinian

issue that is very different from what were the the mainstream academia has been teaching for the

like 30 years. So would you say that that today after

now two years of genocide in in Gaza and like very public broadcasting of all of

this and also the discourse that that grew up around it including of course Franchescan and all of the human rights

advocates who then are being demonized by the Israelis but also the Americans and the Europeans by the way. And is

this now kind of also in China reinforcing this impression that what we

are seeing is just blatant blatant colonial colonial a colonial enterprise by the

west to occupy a indigenous to occupy that piece of land and does that now

remind China or or or Chinese citizens also of of their own century of

humiliation of how how they were treated because it seems that you are saying that before that was kind of that was

not the perception but is that now changing? Yeah, definitely. I think absolutely

like I would say that like the Chinese young citizens today like

especially like those like who are using internet the young nizens they are probably the generation that has the

most like the least favorable or like let's say the most negative perceptions

of Israel that ever since 1970s

and this is a quite a huge change you know because 1970s you know there was

very remote that was ma time the maest era of China and after 40 years of uh of

let's say different narratives like about Israeli Palestinian issue

flourishing in China and now people go back to like what they believed 40 years ago you know like the this younger

generation of China has the I would say the most negative perception of Israel

and uh and also the the narrative like like it's very common in China for

people to compare Israel to the fascist regime of Japan during World War II

you know like and also like often to to to Germany as well you know which is a huge thing that would irritate Israelis

and the entire west but in China we have a different

aspect of uh of political correctness So this thing is not the untouchable

taboo in China. And um you would find that on Chinese internet people often

make those comparison of what the fascist Japan regime did during World

War II, especially the Nanji massacre, comparing that to what Israelis are

doing in Gaza today. And sometimes they also like even compare what the Nazi

Germany did on in term of genocide to what Israelis were doing in Gaza today.

And uh that type of comparison sometimes also

let's say gets incorporated within the governments by like sometimes very high

officials. Everything that you're telling me now actually

Why China Abstained on the UN Gaza Resolution

makes the the decision of of Beijing to abstain from that resolution with which

I introduced this talk even more surprising. I mean all of this would would point toward China actually you

know um now taking a stance for Israel not for Palestine not just for Palestine

but also in order to you know appeal to their own population because China does care about I mean official political

China does care about about public sentiment. Um how do you explain to yourself that they abstain from that

vote and how is that currently being viewed inside China? I think that's definitely a very

controversial vote that even within China there's a lot of uh

like voices of not understanding or or also like critical voices like for

example like I myself I'm not really a fan of that abstaining but uh let's say

if we want to explain why they did that they choose not to vote in favor of it

for for obvious reason the actually the the the the minister foreign affairs was saying that the largest problem they see

about that resolution is that it does not mention that Palestinian territory

must be governed by Palestinians and that's the the basic like principle that

China has been holding right at least in political languages and uh also the

Chinese were still in are are still in this process of believing the two-state

solution you know which is also controversial points that maybe become

less and less feasible but the official stances as we're talking about two-state

solution and China is very disappointed that that two-state solutions was not

written in in the resolution. So it's like you can find that they are

definitely not happy with it and they make this very outspoken. But why is that they still let it pass? I think is

because if you look at the let's say habits of Chinese diplomacy, you find

that is a very how do you say I don't want to use the word conservative because like it has

political meaning of like yeah like conser but like it it's a very sometimes

like very c overly cautious type of overly cautious overly obsessed with

balanced and this type of uh stance and They often only veto things when they

feel like when they're sending a message that I veto this that means like I'm

strongly against this type of thing and that means that even if you guys are

going to do this thing I'm going to sabotage the plan. That's the the what veto means in Chinese diplomatic

mentality. you know like they like for example like we have been uh vetoing lot

of like for example sanctions against some countries for for example DPRK like

North Korea and uh that means that okay I'm vetoing this in the UN platform and I know that

western countries are still going to sanction DPRK or still going to sanction Iran as you guys are trying to do and

vetoing means that okay when you are trying to sanction I don't care I'm I I'm going to actually actively

participate in trading or giving aid to this country. So, okay. Okay. So, so in in in this

sense, a veto to China means I'm actively going to fight against what's

what's happening. And so, in this sense that they abstain from this one means they're not supporting it. They don't

want it to happen, but they're not willing to go all the way to fighting it, which would actually mean picking a

fight with Israel. Yeah. Yeah. I I would say I would say that's the that's that's why because the

Chinese were like they treated the veto thing too serious like comparing to like what like United States treat the veto

thing too not serious you know like they use it casually but for China is like they feel like

the government does not have the determination to say that over the

reconstruction of Gaza issue that we're going to actively do something that like

can change the entire situ situation and to be honest, China probably don't feel

like it is able to do that at this moment because it's very risk to borrow from China. We don't have that much of

uh of of of assets like economically or like in other forms in the region. So

that it would be like I think that what they think is like it would be bad that if we veto the thing and then Trump does

what he wants to do and then we have nothing to do to like save the

situation, you know, like that would be a sabotaging the diplomatic credibility

of China. So that I think that's the reason why they stand. That's a very interesting explanation.

Uh and it's also a good observation. The United States treats the veto at the UN

as you know if I do not 100% support something I will veto it and China treats it as if I do not 100% oppose it

I will not veto it. So it's but this now okay um this now creates though a very

important precedence which is again why it surprises me that China didn't veto because it's the the United Nations

Security Council is the only body politic we've got that can make binding

resolutions on the entire UN body. I mean this resolution is now for all

means and purposes going to be part of international law of what has to be obeyed by everybody and it's not just as

the US as one US uh uh uh uh diplomat ambassador once said about the security

council resolution it's not just a recommendation no no it's binding this is now this now has the force of the

entire UN which is why it is so outrageous but still uh China was willing for that to happen.

Yeah, I would say it's a very unfortunate issue and I don't understand why they

did not see this like as as serious as we see it. I think I'd say

to I'm not trying to justify their like a jud judgment, right? I'm just like

trying to say if we want to understand why the government did such a move, one

possibility is that they just like they don't feel like UN laws are still that

important, especially in the case of Palestine because you know like in the past two years there's lot of efforts in

the international law aspect trying to stop the Israelis from committing the genocide and even China was in the ICJ J

supporting the uh South African case against Israel and China was in the ICG

speaking in favor of armed struggle in Pakistan and uh asking the Israelis to

stop the what they are doing like we need to stop the the war crimes immediately both in the security council

and also in ICE ag and also in the general assembly in all

of those platforms but that changed nothing. I think that's probably the

reason why the Chinese feel like the UN laws don't make that much of

change, especially um binding what the Israelis can do. So they are not not

serious to it. That's probably like I think I would think that's the the only

way to understand why they did so. They just feel like okay if even if we veto

it the Israelis are going to do this thing anyway and uh if anyone wants to

stop the Israelis that must be the resistance powers in the region itself

while the the international law seems very powerless in this situation so they

probably for that reason they didn't realize I think it's a failure to realize the importance of uh vetoing ing

this type of uh basically like imperialist resolution.

This is this is this is troubling. I I have no I have no I have no uh problem believing your your interpretation. But

if if true then it would mean that uh that you know the belief in the

United Nations as an institution that despite the fact that it has no power or that it is relatively powerless that the

rules or the the the international law around it is weakening because China so far has always has always repeated that

international law is the guiding star and international law need to be adhered and the UN charter is the base of

everything and the and you know within within that that uh um understanding,

you would need to be very careful of such resolutions. But if you were right, then the pragmatism in Beijing would now

say like, well, why pick a fight with Israel and the United States over something that even if we veto it,

wouldn't change a damn thing anyhow, and Israel is just going to run rampage anyhow. So give them that and let them

fail with their board of peace. Yeah, I think that's probably like the

the the second assump like the second assessment you mentioned. I think that's

probably like what they were thinking because they feel like even as I said like even if we veto it, we don't have

the power to sabotage that plan, right? and uh by vetoing by the Americans and

the Israelis do whatever they do over Gaza that is going to only hurt the the

the the so-called strategic credibility of China like whether I mean like I'm

not saying like I agree with the assessment but that's probably like how they think of it and then they were thinking that probably the only thing

that can stop the Israelis is not international law but the resistance from the from from like within the

region like resistance from the region like which would troubling the Israelis

and the Americans at the same time. That would probably like push them to change

the idea of of what they want to do. Okay, that that that does make sense. Um

China's Future Foreign Policy in West Asia

but overall, where do you think that leaves now the larger um Chinese foreign

policy toward West Asia? I mean Palestine is not the only West Asian country suffering from

relentless decades of bombarding. I mean the entire

the entire West Asian space. Everything around Israel basically lies in ruins

including uh Syria, Lebanon uh in including then also like you know the

the previous victims like Libya, Iraq. Um it's it's it's one inferno over there

and the the west of course portrays all of this as oh the indigenous Arabs are just not able to get their their stuff

together. Um this is this is locally done. By now we understand this is a

deliberate policy in order to weaken everybody. So so Israel can can more or less do its thing. Um how do the how how

do you think Chinese foreign policy is going to approach this entire region from now on?

Yeah, I think uh what the Chinese foreign policy toward East toward West

Asia has been doing in the past is that uh there was this contradiction that

existed in the Chinese foreign policy in that region is that politically

China is definitely like more close to Iran and China needs Iran because like

in term of political strategy you need a powerful anti-US has regional power in the region

to distract the United States so that the United States does not pour all of its resources into confronting China in

East Asia. Right? So that's the idea that China has been thinking. I think that's still the mainstream idea. But

economically because of the difficulty of trade with Iran and things like that, the economically China has been quite

dependent like not dependent but like heavily intertwined with the American

allies in the region like the Gulf States in particular and sometimes also

Israel. And the Chinese were seeing this thing as like for the last like I think

before the Gaza war like before the is Israel Iran uh war uh the Chinese were

thinking that this thing can at least continue for a little while. They wants to

maintain this idea as like so-called everyone's partner in the region and then they don't want to pick sides on

regional wars and things like that. They want to be neutral. Yeah. like to stay neutral and then uh

like basically the Chinese government wants to imitate what Russia has been

doing because Russia was uh like largely like it was like saying that it was the

friend of every every major country in the region. So China was trying to do the same but with with what is happening

in the last two years I think this thing is no longer going to continue as I was talking about even the even the Chinese

investment in Israel cannot cannot stand this type of geopolitical conflict right

like you think that you can invest in Israel while maintaining in close relationship with Israel like even the

Israelis would not allow that thing to to continue and uh I think this is not

going continue. And uh I think what happened is that in the

last round of uh Iran Israel conflict, the Chinese were very disappointed that

Iran was sort of like suffered too much like more than people expected them to

suffer and that put Iran into sort of like a more disadvantaged situation in

the region. So I would imagine that what the Chinese are going to do for the next

few years is that they're going to increase engagement with Iran more to

like make sure that Iran does not fall because for from the Chinese perspective

the fall of the Assad regime is was not a good news for China. you know like the

Chinese were surprised by that and uh Syria until today has very weird

diplomatic relationship with China like this like Julani government has very very weird relationship with China and

uh that type of normal diplomacy has not fully uh restored. So I think the

Chinese were seeing this as like quite a surprise but also a sort of like historical lesson to learn and it would

be a very important for China to keep Iran not to collapse or like not to be

like severely damaged and uh so that but I think China's strategy toward the west

Asia would in that sense be more like supporting the recover of and its allies

involution. Do you have do you have any hunch on how

China's Definition of "Terrorism" vs. "Armed Struggle"

on how Chinese foreign policy now views

you know the terrorism term um because I mean Al Jalani

Syria and Hamas I alani and Hamas are a perfect example for good terrorists bad terrorists right the terrorists we like

we put them in power that we trim the beard a little bit and and put them on on on TV and the terrorists we hate we

we don't only kill them. We also kill all the civilians that that are some form of support structure, right? I

mean, and just get rid of them. And so, on the one hand, this terrorism is is a

farce, an utter farce. I mean, to the same level as now narot terrorism is a

farce in order to to invade Venezuela and so on. But on the other hand, China also has historically problems with

their own um terrorism, which they framed as terrorism, especially in places like Shin Shing Jang. um and

anti-terrorism is of course one of the the reasons for the Shanghai Corporation

organization um in order to combat like transnational um um violent group

networks in uh East and uh in in in North and Northeast Asia. Um how do you

how do view do view do you view China approaching the terrorist issue from now on? I think it's it's very interesting that

uh for China because you know like China like the the the the people's republic

of China emerged out of guerilla warfare right so the guerilla warfare against both

against the the the the nationalist government of Chanka but also against

Japanese uh invasion so China's perception of uh like the word of like

like terrorism has a very like different take I think from like the west or at

least from what the United States and uh and Europe. So first like China has made

this very clear that str armed struggle against occupation

normally is not considered as terrorism in China in Chinese diplomacy and this

is in the official document like for example I was mentioning that the Chinese uh representative uh uh like the

I think he's the director of the Chinese department of treaty and law he gave the

speech in ICJ today and he was uh citing all the international laws and saying

things and he just want to make one point is that people in the occupied

territory use has the rights of using arm struggle against the occupiers and

that was a a huge thing of of of Chinese perception of arms struggle and that

thing continues from m era until today and never changed even even when China's

relationship with Israel was the closest to this thing would never change. And u

the Chinese always recognize that Palestinians have the rights of arms struggle and uh since I think because as

we know like China has close relationship with the PLA with the PRO and especially with Fatak. So but even

like on the view about let's say some like religious uh Palestinian organization like Hamas

or the Islamist Jihad the Chinese were just they still the official policy is

not to see label them as terrorist organization. In 200 as early as 2003

when the Chinese official media interviewed Shik Yasen, the former leader of Hamas, they described this

thing as a armed organization or like resistant organization. And in 2016,

that is under the current administration, under Xiinping's administration, the Shinuan news agency,

official media of China, published this um stipulation telling people that how

to use formal languages in news reports and there is one particular clause

saying that do not call Hamas a terrorist organization or extremist organization. So it doesn't mean that

China loves Hamas but means that at least China does not want to label that

type of organization as a terrorist organization. But meanwhile the what the

Chinese were mostly like sensitive about is religious extremism. So I think for

the Hamas case it's just like the Chinese feel like even we don't like their ideology but we have some sort of

sympathy towards the the fact that there are people leaving occupied land but

with uh Julani I think that's a very different case and China has been quite

cr skeptical and critical of the Julani government like ever since uh very long

time ago especially because uh his relationship with the eastern Turkyistan

Islamic movement which is uh listed not as a terrorist organization not only within China but also by the United

Nations. So what the Chinese has been trying to do the last

a few months is that trying to like negotiate with Julani saying that we can

possibly recognize your administration and doing everything but you need to

make a promise of not cooperating with those figure the

the the eastern Turkiststan Islamic movement terrorist again and try to most

preferable ideas to like return those people back to China. But even if that's

not possible, just at least like trying to like you have to make a a clear

statement saying that you would not allow those organizations to use Syria

as a base against China. That's the same thing what the Chinese did to Taliban after Taliban took power in Afghanistan

is that the Chinese are aware that Taliban in Afghanistan has a close

relationship with Taliban in Pakistan which is bombing Chinese investment in

in Pakistan often and has some connections with the eastern Turkistan

Islamic movement. So what the Chinese were like is eventually did with Taliban

is that even if we don't we don't urge you to like return any of those figures

to China but like just don't allow them to do any activity against China in your

territory and in exchange for that China was basically sending out economic aid and

uh and like improving trade with Afghanistan even like after the Taliban

took power. So yeah, so I think it's a very practical thing and the Chinese are

very again like very not conservative but like like sort of like inwardlooking

in term of a lot of international affairs as long as organization is not

explicitly launching attack against China's own territory or like Chinese people abroad.

The Chinese were like very flexible with it and like refrain from making

moral judgments over this type of uh organizations and complexities. Yeah.

Yeah. That yeah that that does make sense because at the end of the day I mean the other sides they also all work

with these organizations as well. So it's like why why expect China to be the outlier and not work with anyone? Um

uh maybe you know one of the things that that um not infuriated but really um

that that really made me shake my head very very much was when about 2 months

after October 7th. I think it was December 2023

uh we already understood that what is going on is is is you know um um collective punishment in Gaza and

amounting probably to genocide. I mean the genocide accusation was already out and that was the time when actually the

um the the government of of South Africa started its uh genocide uh uh case at

the ICJ and at the same time the United States uh and with Israel's co-signing

um a bill signed a bill like in in the UN it just it wasn't a resolution it was

a declaration um that they are heavily opposing the genocide in Shing Jang.

I just I just couldn't believe that this is the moment when they do this. Um how

Perceiving Western Double Standards on "Genocide"

is this use and abuse of you know very

very fundamental and important concepts of international law again international

law then now being perceived in in China. I mean obviously must hate it but

but what did this does this is this now leading to a way also for the public to

review how they understood what how how the west is using concept.

Yeah. Yeah. I think this uh what happens in like throughout the Gaza genocide

until today is a really important political lesson for the Chinese masses

to understand the double standard nature of the west. Yeah. And um especially

like be right before that as you were talking about the west has this uh like

years of making various propagandas about the shing jang policy and trying

to relate that into a genocide. Well at the actual genocide is happening in

Gaza. They just like never refer to the the thing as a genocide. And uh that

that thing really like like like like amazed and like not in a

negative way like shocked the the Chinese and to see like oh like is this

the the really like what you are doing and uh you know like Israel also also

does that is like I think ever since 200

19 if you look at the mainstream Israeli media Israeli media has been reporting a

lot things about Shinjang issue and Israelis are like okay like suddenly

they care about Muslim religious rights sudden they care about

like so-called genocide allegations and uh and anything about that like but

when Gaza was happening like they just like keep not talking about anything

like that happening so I think I think this is a really like interesting moment

for for for China to realize the the double standardness of what they're doing and then the Chinese u for the

like the Chinese government also I think it's very important to figure out to to point out that in the beginning the

Chinese government was was like I think driven by that sort of

like overly obsessed with balance type of obsession. They did not call the war

crimes in Gaza as genocide. But that thing actually changed in in this year

in August. In August of 2025, there was this uh uh report like called

report on human rights violations of the United States in the year of uh 2024.

And that thing is official document released by the Chinese state council of in the information office of the Chinese

state council. In that report you can find it online literally says that

United States is a compl to the genocide in Gaza. So that's the I think that's

the first time that in official Chinese document that they actually refer to

what is happening in Gaza as a genocide and that's quite a quite a important

thing you know and uh in also some some figures of like some like like some

figures in the Chinese foreign ministry in their more private talk they have

been using the term genocides like even earlier than this document. Like for

example, the the the the general council of uh of chi

of China to Osaka, Japan like you probably know that he's quite

controversial right now. Yeah. He made a statement a couple of days ago. Yeah. Yeah. About what like about that. And

the funny thing is that he was controversial about Israel like even before that he tweeted he on his Twitter

he posted a lot of photos of like comparing Israeli war crimes in Gaza to

the Nanji massacre and uh he

described Israeli actions as like genocidal actions. And then the most interesting thing is that he even made a

post in June this year comparing Israel to Nazi Germany.

And he like he made this post and uh I'm going to quote him. He says that the

only difference between Israel and Germany is that Germany treats United States as an enemy, but Israel treats

United States as it ATM. And Oh, wow. I mean, he put the he put the Israeli

flag and then the the Nazi Germany flag to to together and said that thing in as

the text like below and he posted this thing on the on his official like

Twitter social media and that thing make super angry made Americans super angry.

So he was already like very so-called controversial and outspoken on this

issue before like the China Japan issue right but I think what he's doing is

like at least to show that within the Chinese government there

have been a large number of high rank officials who have the view that what

the Israelis are doing in Gaza is a genocide. But you know, sorry, I just need to ask because he's a he's a consul

in Ozaka. So he's an official diplomat of China. He's not an honorary console. He's a full console.

Yeah. Yeah. He's and I think he's the he's his he's his he's his he's his t his position is general counsel, but he's uh

let's say he's he's like ambassador level rank. He's ranked with ambassador rank. So

he's a very high level of diplomats. And you you cannot post this kind of stuff without either direct backup or like

being sufficiently sure that this will stand and will not cost your neck because uh otherwise diplomats wouldn't

do that because they they have their own they depend on their ministry right so in a sense this this post has more or

less if not the approval then at least the fine go ahead with it of the of the

ministry of foreign affairs. Yeah I would I would assume so. I think at least you would have some sort of

like uh acques essence from rest of the people in the government or

like there the large group of people in the government holding similar opinions otherwise you wouldn't post those type

of things and uh that's like after he posted that like nothing happened you

know like the like there was like it's not like the foreign minister get angry or something so I think definitely like

that shows there's a large number of uh sympathy to Palestine within the Chinese

government and I think that leads to the the affforementioned reports on human

rights uh released by the state council like directly using the term Gaza genocide.

This leads me to my last question but uh you know the the Gaza genocide taught me

a lot about Zionism and you know the difference between Zionism, Judaism, the

state of Israel and so on. Is this also the case for for uh China? Do you because in my view you cannot understand

The Re-Emerging Discourse on Zionism in China

what's happening without understanding what Zionism is and how it works and Christian Zionism and and and that that

that backs it up the entire project. Do you is that also now part of the discourse in China or is that still a

more opaque affair? It is the discourse I think it's uh I

mean in the in the government I think there's a huge like generational division in the government is definitely

like the older people are in charge right? M so they're more talking about two-state

solutions and believe that two-state solution can bring everlasting peace. Yeah. The also accord of the 1990s the

1990s mindset. Yeah. Yeah. Like like those type of mindset and think that and and I think that's

also like they're largely influenced by Fatak. So they think that if Fatak says

two-state solution is good like why are we judging them? So just let them be. uh

you know like this type of thing but I think in the younger generation there's more serious talking like even like

challenging the the the very nature of Zionism and that is a very very

interesting thing because uh China like if you look at history like since 1920s

China has already known about Zionism like Sonia Sen for example he had he met

with Zionist uh leaders in Shanghai and because and and and he

expressed like sympathetic views towards Zionism because he feel like Zionism is a nationalist ideas held by a small

group of oppressed people of Europe. So it must be good. That's that was idea.

And uh that thing continued I think continued later. And uh also like China

is China has a very long and interesting history with the

Jewish diaspora like in during the Nazi Holocaust. The Jew a lot of Jews to

Shanghai and take refuge there. And they also had their own newspaper and own

community networks. Many of them later returned to Israel after the establishment. And uh so there the

Zionist organization was there functioning and had had like built a lot

of connections with important figures in the in the in the nationalist government of China in that era and even with like

like there's also like a lot of like Jewish comrades in the Chinese Communist Party as well. So it's uh like like many

some of them in very high positions and uh uh I think I think in in the

political council conference of 1988 I think most of the foreign communist or

foreign like most of the let's say CPC members who are foreign uh citizens are

from Jewish origin. So there was this very uh long connection and um for that

reason like China was uh so like I I never buy into the concept of like like right now like a lot of people saying

like China is anti-Semitic or something like that was not the case and uh through those interactions the Chinese

actually like have lot of understanding of what Zionism is about. historically

did not see that as a problem until the 60s when the state of Israel started to

like invade everyone else that made Mao started to feel like oh this is actually

a very bad thing so they started to uh explicitly

say that the China China's uh state uh the official stance is against the

Zionist and so that's the literature of the 70s I was talking about and uh this

thing later faded away after the the dungit reform and because like China has

two-state solution right so like they started uh uh stopped like questioning

the legitimacy of Zionism but now with what is happening in go of the young generation started to like dig out the

things of the 70s and they started to think that whether Zionism by its nature

is a imperialist idea like they started to pose this type of a question And uh

even in academia in I think last year uh Elan Pap's book was published in Chinese

like translating Chinese language and published in Beijing and that was a was a huge deal like Elan Pope he himself

went to Beijing to to advertise that type of thing. he had some sort of

events with alistania embassy in China and uh the elderly generation Chinese

scholars are still like little bit afraid of his ideas and say that like

maybe like we we don't know whether we should label Zionism as a bad thing or

not like we hesitate about that but the younger generation started to find that thing quite popular so I do think that

this general this generational difference is quite It's obvious and

that makes me feel like in the like let's say next 20 years or something

when this younger generation started to take more important positions in the in

the government like China's policy can be much more

pro Palestine than it is right now. That was uh to the force a very broad

overview uh and and very good insights. I mean, uh, Shangai, thank you very much for this. Um, people who would like to

read more from you or to see more of you, is there a place where you occasionally or or so publish your

thinking or your your your analysis? Yeah, I I often write for

Global Times. So sometimes you can see like my articles on global times but uh

um Palestine related thing. I published the the an article on the transnational

institute and the the Tik Tok was the Tik Tok video was based on that article

and I can share the link of the article with you and uh I also have some like academic articles on that topic as well.

But like I think though the one I was mentioning is more readable and and

related to some of the thing we talked about today such as how the Chinese masses and the Chinese government

reacted to the genocide in Gaza and things like that. Please send me these links. I will all put them into the description box of

this video below. Shen Shenzang, thank you very much for your time today. Thank you very much.

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